How underhanded can people be?

[wolf bite]

I fully understand talking someone in another clan to team up against a third clan. This is good diplomacy.

What what do you call someone in your own clan who transfers the clans net to the enemy? Should I make a poll of words you would use?


Wolf Bite

[Genevieve]

Ok, I'll start. Generous?

[Gen. Volkov]

How about traitor.

[Neobaron]

I have to be honest.

This is something I would do... if I chose my own clan.

Or if I really, really, really hated someone in the clan that was chosen for me.

---

There are fewer valid reasons than invalid, but the valid reasons carry more weight on the basis of their content.

I'm not going to clarify that. Take it how you will.

If nothing else, this is a great case for targetted distribution - even partial would be a great idea.

[wolf bite]

The Idea of forced clans was to get different people to work together to make a better community. If you don't like your forced clan and can't deal with it, DELETE and join back next round.

But to spend the round sabotaging your clan and helping the enemy ....

Maybe we should not have forced clans again until we have a more mature crowd.


Wolf Bite

[Neobaron]

I don't think it's a maturity issue.

Really this is one guy acting on his own will.

If he were anywhere else, and not with you and Volkov, I am almost certain he wouldn't have done this.

Poor draw, bad luck, whatever you want to call it. This was a local issue and not a global issue.

---

As to Gen getting the benefit -

I don't feel she is to blame for this.

It is her responsibility to win at all costs within the rules.

She accepted a market transation (several) and so she did literally pay for this net.

If you must direct anger, please do not direct it at her.

[Gen. Volkov]

If he were anywhere else, and not with you and Volkov, I am almost certain he wouldn't have done this.

Pretty sure he would have if he had been teamed with Shadow.

[wolf bite]

Sometimes we need to put friends aside and look at actions. With any justification you want you can find reasons for anything. So the member on our team was upset because he could not overthrow the chosen management so he decided to damage the clan. You can make any justification you want. The answer is delete. Not spend your time for a month wasting everyone elses for your own selfish needs.

Frankly, a co conspirator is no less guilty. A win by talent is a good clean win. Grabbing the "blue ribbon" and running out the door is an embarrassment to put in your home.

Even on your argument trying to reduce her guilt, Knowing she is that type to approve of this type of behavior would you want her on your team? I would not want someone that can approve and justify such actions to try to take a cheap underhanded win.


Wolf Bite

[wolf bite]

Sorry for the double post, but this is new news.

Just found out that she had also been betraying her own clan by changing the war setting and sending him product. So those people on her clan that worked so hard for a month, gave her their trust to vote her as leader, has their stuff sent over for the selfish reasons of those two.

Do you still find the guilty so easy to dismiss?


Wolf Bite

[Neobaron]

Attitudes and loyalties reset monthly with the game.

This incident doesn't change my perception of Gen in the least bit.

I know her skillset and the company she keeps.

I also know that there is an opportunist in everyone and that she is not the only person in this thread who would take the low road if it meant a win.

Didn't you and a turncoat once take down ROME after another had come along and dropped all of their defenses by questionable means? I might be completely off base here as it is a story compiled from 4 different people, but this is the gist I get from all of them.

[wolf bite]

Again trying to find justification. You can't compare a game of reg against an emperor clan to forced clans in turbo. It was CLAN good that were being sent.

Knowing that both he and her will stab their own clan in the back, I would not want to be in their clan or give any level of trust.


Wolf Bite

[Holby]

I respect the rights of others to choose not to play in the spirit of the round. But I don't agree that's happened here.

Gen contributed a great deal to the storehouse. I'm sure she made a lot more Net than she received on distribution. To the best of my knowledge, she hasn't betrayed anyone within her clan, or contributed to its downfall.

I think it's a little foolish to suggest we hold no more forced clans, merely because someone has (arguably) acted inappropriately.


There's an outrageous number of things I've done opportunistically. ROME is the one most people remember.

But seeing as we're talking about Turbo...

In '03, I exploited my friendship with Nohc in order to win a particular set.

I'd been away most of the round, and Nohc had trillions of cash saved up to buy out mercs before reset. With less than a day to go, he had hundreds of billion he had no use for. I asked for it. I then used Wildcat: Pressgang, to take the much smaller amount of cash, and turn it into a much larger Networth. Back in those days, all troop types were generated with the spell, and the amount generated was based on Networth. The Networth leaps were enormous, but few people knew its effectiveness.

I won the round, Nohc came second.

I never told him how I'd use the money, or that I could get ahead of him. He just gave it trustingly.

I've done lots of other questionable things, but they've rarely affected my friendships.

It bothers me when people take IG actions so personally. I always get involved, it keeps it interesting. But a large part of game related posts and messages, for me at least, are posturing. I'm trying to provoke a response, or give an impression. It doesn't necessarily represent my real attitudes towards that person, or how I'm feeling.

I hope that's more where you are at the moment, Wolf, rather than the rage you've expressed in this thread.

[Shadow]

If you had not given him control of war settings and kept everyone at war he could not have aided. I don't disagree that it was a dirty move, but it is something that could (should) have been anticipated and blocked.

[Genevieve]

Sorry for the double post, but this is new news.

Just found out that she had also been betraying her own clan by changing the war setting and sending him product. So those people on her clan that worked so hard for a month, gave her their trust to vote her as leader, has their stuff sent over for the selfish reasons of those two.

Do you still find the guilty so easy to dismiss?


Wolf Bite

My clan hasn't lost any net from this play. Honestly, I think only I and one other person in my clan worked hard for a month. I wasn't voted as leader.

I really can't be bothered with getting into a debate about this with you, as I know I'm not guilty of anything dirty and I don't think anyone else but you thinks I am either. But what I will say is that I'm really disappointed in your response, for someone who's supposed to be a mature player, your anger is completely out of order, both in this forum and especially in the IG messages. Particularly considering, in what seems to be most people's opinions, I didn't really do anything wrong.

Kyle, Sevz didn't have control of war settings and didn't aid.

[Shadow]

Oh, my mistake, I got the impression that he sent away a bunch of net. I suppose there are other ways to do it.

EDIT: just read Neo's post more carefully. Sneaky.

EDIT EDIT: (mostly directed at Neo) the difference between here and taking down a clan in an unforced setting is that usually, clans have a choice about letting people in, and are therefore responsible for what happens with their new members, to some extent. Here, there is no choice involved and so I think it really is abuse of the system. It is pretty much the earlier spying scenario, but instead of sending info about net, you actually send the net.

On the other hand, I don't think Lucy should be judged too harshly for her role in it. At least the net didn't go to waste, and it surely would have if there had been no way to aid it away.