So I have a bunch of costumes that I have to design sometime next year, but I really can't procrastinate this one. I need to design a bunch of roman age armor and stuff and make it look at least semi professional. My budget is zero right now. The bed sheet toga thing is definitely happening on account of my lack of ability to design stuff, but I still have to find a way to put together a bunch of helmets and breastplates. Anyone have any tips on what to do?
Ooh! I have a bunch of foam armor tutorials I can link you to when I get home.
Thanks, you planning on getting home anytime soon?
This is all i can find ATM. i'm sure i have more somewhere. I haven't tried any of these, but they look good.
Armor patterns: http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/
References:
http://saroux.tumblr.com/post/46911363176/armormaking-faq-ive-been-asked-on-multiple
http://entropyhouse.com/penwiper/costumes/helmsdeep.html
Dear Krowdon,
When you are referencing or quoting a source, and you provide said source, you do not need to provide references to the first source.
Love,
Kilkenne
Quote from: Kilkenne on August 20, 2013, 02:49:41 AM
Dear Krowdon,
When you are referencing or quoting a source, and you provide said source, you do not need to provide references to the first source.
Love,
Kilkenne
Did I goof up.
Only a little. Thanks for the links!
UPDATE: The armor patterns didn't work out too well due to my lack of skill. Also, I need to find a way to make swords/shields/daggers.
Paper Mache?
Google for instructions, but basically its just a water/flour paste smeared on torn up newspaper.
Find things you can use as a mold, apply several layers, allow to dry, and then rattlecan it and you're good.
I'd just use foamboard for swords, trace the outline and cut. Tape the handle.
You can always rattlecan that as well.
By rattlecan he means spray-paint if you are a little slow.
Ah. Thanks, Kilk. :D
Cool thanks. And thanks for the translation kilk.
I made my daughter Arya a sword for her second birthday. All I did was take a scrap bit of plywood and sand it down with a powered hand sander (I also tried using my metal grinder, but it was a poor substitute for a table sander). I haven't painted it, nor have I made a hilt... And so far she has to grow into the sword a bit.
(http://olivercrosby.com/temp/arya-sword.jpg)
So basically, all you'd need is scrap wood and a sander (ask your friends/dad, someone oughta have one).
Windy's right, you can use reflective metallic spray paint. But you might want to make a point of trying to match the colour to iron or bronze, rather then steel. During antiquity (which was the time of ancient Rome, which went right up to about 500 AD depending on how you look at it) most weopons were made out of bronze because it was cheap, but the best warriors (the aristocrats, who were social elites trained in combat) could afford iron, which was very expensive because they didn't have blast furnaces in Europe till sometime between the 2nd and 5th centuries AD.
Here's a quote from a class I just took:
Quote... iron is harder than bronze so if you are using bronze weapons and armour
you cannot hope to win against someone using iron weapons and armour. Hence only
a small elite, those who could afford iron, were able to fight in battle. And that had
tremendous social and political consequences; rule by kings, and a social system
dominated by a hereditary warrior caste called aristocrats
We had 2 lectures on metals, and a later two on war technology. If you'd like a copy of the notes, or even the lecture video's I can send you them. This class was awesome, and it is a university class so I'm sure it'll give you the edge up (assuming you're in high school?). The prof was a bit technocentric but I'm totally over it.
It took me a minute to figure out what window was talking about :3
Also Arya is 2 already? Time goes fast...
Ahhah. Made her a sword that's longer than she is tall
Nicely done, I like the grip
TIL rattlecan is not as common as I thought
https://www.google.com/#q=define+rattle+can&spell=1
But yep, if you've got the tools or can find someone with them a 1"x4"x8' untreated (!!) board is only a few bucks. No treated wood for this plz.
Also, they make bronze spraypaint. I painted a chicken coop's tin roof with it - http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/windhound/coop_done.jpg
Its rather pretty, though I've no idea what color roman swords should be. Your local hardware store more than likely has a gigantic array of spray paint colors, or if you're feeling ambitious you can grab a quart of normal house paint and have whatever color you want mix'd up; just bring in a sample.
QuoteWindy's right, you can use reflective metallic spray paint. But you might want to make a point of trying to match the colour to iron or bronze, rather then steel. During antiquity (which was the time of ancient Rome, which went right up to about 500 AD depending on how you look at it) most weopons were made out of bronze because it was cheap, but the best warriors (the aristocrats, who were social elites trained in combat) could afford iron, which was very expensive because they didn't have blast furnaces in Europe till sometime between the 2nd and 5th centuries AD.
I think your dates are a little off there Ollie. Iron was in pretty heavy use across Europe starting around 1300 BC, which is when furnace technology in Europe finally developed to the point that blacksmiths could actually melt iron ore instead of just softening it. Blast furnaces would come much later, but around 1300 BC is when wrought iron became the predominant metal in European daily life. That's why it's called the "Iron Age". Steel was expensive and hard to produce, and in most cases only the elites had it, but iron was fairly common from pretty much the start of the Iron Age. You are fundamentally right about Iron vs Bronze, but steel, in particular good steel was the difference between the commoner and the noble in the time period you are talking about. The exception being Rome, which was essentially a state that existed to support its military, so all the Roman soldiers had equipment provided by the state, and were part of a salaried, professional army.
You're right that iron was common during the iron age but not because they were smelting it.
Not that the particular dates are important, but I think it's important to get the transition right. Before the collapse of the bronze age (Greek), iron swords were very difficult to make. Back then, furnaces weren't hot enough to melt the stone out of iron. They were using ordinary downdraft kilns, which couldn't get hot enough. Even using charcoal, when you add more charcoal to a downdraft kiln, you lose heat out of the chimney because you're producing more flue gasses.
The problem is that air is only one-fifth oxygen. When carbon burns in air the resulting carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide is very hot at first, but then it loses most of its heat to the nitrogen that makes up four-fifths of the air and hence most of the flue gas.
So iron was rare, and only an elite class of super warriors (aristocrats) could afford iron weapons.
The solution was to blow more oxygen into the furnace through a tube (a tuyere). The incoming air captures heat from the flue gasses, then carries it back into the centre of the fire.
It was this advancement, around the 13th century BC that made Iron more easily available. But it's not because they were "smelting" the iron, as you say, it's because they were able to melt the rock part of the iron ore. The iron metal was left as a spongy mass that could be beaten into a shape.
THIS is what caused the transition. Iron became cheap enough that ordinary citizens could afford iron weapons, and warfare changed completely. It wasn't just the Romans, all over the Mediterranean warfare changed. Beforehand war was a sort of political sport practiced by small group of aristocratic warriors (the hereditary class of warriors who could afford iron swords). Battles were free-for-all melee combat (besides the odd archer), involving very few people. No formations, no armies, no troops.
By the 7th century BC, iron was cheap enough that anyone could fight in battle. They realized that if you make a long line of unskilled soldiers, they can overwhelm any seasoned aristocratic warrior. Numbers became more important than skill. Thus begins army-style warfare. You mentioned the Romans, but Philip II of Macedon was one of the first to create a professional army (lead by those aristocrat warriors). During the Iron Age just about everyone fought like this.
Now, you mentioned smelting. I say this is wrong because they couldn't smelt until they started using blast furnaces. Europeans didn't master this technology until, like I said, sometime between the 2nd and 5th centuries AD. This was the first time they could heat iron ore hot enough to melt the rock (slag) AND the iron. Slag and iron don't mix, so when they drip down to the bottom the slag floats on the top of the molten iron, and the two liquids can be drained off separately.
Lastly, steel is an iron alloy, and because they couldn't smelt iron, they couldn't make steel until they started using blast furnaces. A very tiny amount of steel has always been available because of the rare nickel-iron meteorites.
QuoteNow, you mentioned smelting. I say this is wrong because they couldn't smelt until they started using blast furnaces. Europeans didn't master this technology until, like I said, sometime between the 2nd and 5th centuries AD. This was the first time they could heat iron ore hot enough to melt the rock (slag) AND the iron. Slag and iron don't mix, so when they drip down to the bottom the slag floats on the top of the molten iron, and the two liquids can be drained off separately.
Actually, I didn't say smelting, which is more than just melting the metal out of it's ore. European blacksmiths did have furnaces hot enough to
melt iron part of the iron ore, but they did not have furnaces hot enough to
smelt iron ore until the invention of the blast furnace.
QuoteNot that the particular dates are important, but I think it's important to get the transition right. Before the collapse of the bronze age (Greek), iron swords were very difficult to make. Back then, furnaces weren't hot enough to melt the stone out of iron. They were using ordinary downdraft kilns, which couldn't get hot enough. Even using charcoal, when you add more charcoal to a downdraft kiln, you lose heat out of the chimney because you're producing more flue gasses.
The dates are important, in this case, because if 1300 BC is the correct date for the beginning of the Iron Age, then basically everything you said is wrong. Especially as it relates to Antiquity, since the Roman legions most certainly were equipped with iron weapons and armor. Bronze was the predominant metal during the Trojan war, but for the entire period known as "Classical Antiquity", iron was the predominant metal.
QuoteIt was this advancement, around the 13th century BC that made Iron more easily available. But it's not because they were "smelting" the iron, as you say, it's because they were able to melt the rock part of the iron ore. The iron metal was left as a spongy mass that could be beaten into a shape.
That is literally exactly what I said. I did not once mention smelting.
Quote
THIS is what caused the transition. Iron became cheap enough that ordinary citizens could afford iron weapons, and warfare changed completely. It wasn't just the Romans, all over the Mediterranean warfare changed. Beforehand war was a sort of political sport practiced by small group of aristocratic warriors (the hereditary class of warriors who could afford iron swords). Battles were free-for-all melee combat (besides the odd archer), involving very few people. No formations, no armies, no troops.
Not in all cases, some very large battles were fought with bronze weapons, in particular the Hittites and the Egyptians fought some very large battles over trade routes. These battles usually involved large infantry formations flanked by chariots. Really the biggest change caused by the Iron Age was in agriculture. The reason battles were so small wasn't really because of the weapons, it was because food just wasn't plentiful enough to produce the large populations required for large-scale warfare. The introduction of the iron plow changed all that, (Bronze is too soft to make an effective plow) and caused a revolution in food production. Once the food was available, populations could expand. Previously the only places capable of supporting the kind of population required for large scale warfare had been areas like the Fertile Crescent and the Nile delta, with their frequent floods causing a regular influx of nutrient rich soil.
Quote
By the 7th century BC, iron was cheap enough that anyone could fight in battle. They realized that if you make a long line of unskilled soldiers, they can overwhelm any seasoned aristocratic warrior. Numbers became more important than skill. Thus begins army-style warfare. You mentioned the Romans, but Philip II of Macedon was one of the first to create a professional army (lead by those aristocrat warriors). During the Iron Age just about everyone fought like this.
There is some debate about this. Most historians credit the Romans with creating the world's first professional army, but some do claim that the Macedonian army under Philip II was a professional army. The main knocks on Philip's army being professional is that there doesn't seem to have been fixed term of service like the Romans had, and that the leaders in the army were aristocrats that Philip had convinced to join him, who led varying numbers of men, rather than the more standardized and professional rank structure the Romans had.
Quote
Lastly, steel is an iron alloy, and because they couldn't smelt iron, they couldn't make steel until they started using blast furnaces. A very tiny amount of steel has always been available because of the rare nickel-iron meteorites.
LOL. Of course they could make steel, it just was hard to do on a large scale before the invention of the blast furnace, making steel rare and expensive. (Once again, the Romans were the exception, everyone in the Roman Army had a steel short sword, the famous "gladius".) Google "Noric steel", "Damascus Steel", or "Wootz steel".
Lol, you're hopeless, Dan.
Well, I was trying to be friendly, and you started arguing with me.
Just to be clear, the setting takes place around 200 B.C. I'm pretty sure that either bronze or iron was the main metal used for the weaponry.
If its in Europe or the middle east, then it's iron.
I have made a replica of a Legend of Zelda Hylian shield and Master sword with card board and foam board. Turned out better than expected. If u google it it's pretty easy to find the site. I don remember he name of it cause it's been forever since I did it. It has a lot of other costumes too. 300 sword and helmet, and much more. :D