Here is a quick summary of what is happening on the forums these days.
Complaining. Everyone complaining. Even this is a complaint. This is stupid. We are getting to the point where everyone is leaving again because of the people on the forum acting immature. You people can say whatever you want, saying that making those banners peace makes or whatnot is immature, but it is more to go off and complain and cry about things whenever you are insulted in the slightest bit, or things do not go exactly your way.
We are a community that is mostly age 13 - 20, and NOT a community of 6 - 8 year olds. Wait a moment, did you just read that? Why yes, you did! The truth is out, folks! I am sick and tired of everyone acting like it's the end of the world when you are insulted. What do you do in school when someone goes after you verbally? Fight back you git, you are supposed to stand up for yourself.
Big bad Retto had to hire himself some more admins in the last few months. Big surprise, with all rules that need to be followed, we need some more laws, or maybe we need to adopt a new MEMBER-MADE charter that everyone will follow, and we won't have problems like Peace's sig anymore. We will have set reasons to gag people and whatnot if we all make a list of rules that we will follow.
POST COUNT: Whoopdeefreakindoo, you got 1000 posts. Do you want a medal? With the new charter I propose that we reset the forums. Every account must re-register and agree to the terms of the charter. Hazaa. Then we have a reason to gag or ban if at all necessary.
Gagging itself. Good job, Retto, you found a way to talk about people in public and there is nothing they can do about it. It's a real great feeling not knowing what you are "gagged" for. I was "gagged" this weekend, and luckily I was visiting the military acadamy, or I would have been pretty peeved with your deciding to make it so I can only read your grievances against me. Oh wait, they were only against Peace, it didn't say much until there was a post that Ad made about my being gagged and the people started wondering why.
PEOPLE LEAVING: All of this stuff added up. We're making people LEAVE that just came back. The majority of people here have been coming and going, as I myself have, and people who have been here since the beginning are getting disgusted and leaving. This needs to be addressed. And just saying "Oh. They'll be back." Like Menatus is kind of wrong. You either do the good-guy thing and try to convince them not to leave, say goodbye, or not say anything at all. The RWL forums are a pretty substantial part of our lives, those who participate and read them frequently, and leaving them is a pretty big deal. Think about it.
These are just a few of many things that I've thought of, I can write more in-depth when I'm not tired and cold because the heater in the house broke.
If this gets edited, then fine. If you don't want people to hear what others have to say, good, I hope a lot of people read it before you do. Get them thinking a bit.
Kilk- I completely agree with you. We are driving people off because of our immaturity. Our greatest friends and rivals are leaving, and it is doubtful that they will come back in the near future and maybe not at all. We need to grow up, if someone insults you, instead of complaining, either shrug it off or insult them back. It seems like almost everyone in these forums is so spineless that they reread their posts to the umpteenth time so they don't flame anyone. Well guess what, to everyone who does that, it is my opinion that you have way too much time on your hands and therefore are wasting it complaining to other people. Don't you realize that by complaining, it may make you feel better but makes the game worse for everyone else? (*Gasp* I just "semi-flamed" people ((seriously don't edit this, just deal with what I'm saying)))
Another great idea is a member-drawn charter. This way, we all have a set of laws that WE agreed upon (and that's not to outrageous so the admins are ok with them) so that everyone's experience here is improved. We'll be happier if we don't get in these stupid little arguements over nothing but "flames". Dear lord people, deal with it. With a member-drawn charter, we will all be happier, I guarantee it.
Finally- all of you who are too immature to understand my post, if you edit it, I hope that everyone else who has the brain to understand what I'm saying. If you think I'm flaming you, then make a new topic or PM me: I'll be happy to discuss anyone's "hurt feelings" because I'm being blunt and confrontational. My aim is Orcrist2007 if you wanna complain to me even more.
I'm pretty sure you all know my stance.
Of course i am 100% behind Kilk and orcist.
But i also have to ask, wouldn't the charter just giver those avid "never-flame-me-happy-happy-oh-my-gosh-that-is-mean-could-that-ossibly-be-a-flame?" people a better chance to make EVERYTHING flame?
I wasn't just saying anything, Kilk, it's a fact. People make posts about how they're leaving so people will be like "I'll miss you!" and then they come back. Of course, that's not everybody, but hey. RWL is addicting. Argue that.
And I'm the one who has proposed over and over and OVER that there should be no post count. but nobody cares about my opinions! Nobody cares about anyone's opinions. All I know is it's probably not gonna happen.
Quotebut nobody cares about my opinions! Nobody cares about anyone's opinions.
Exactly, that's why you shouldn't post your opinion about what I said here, because I probably don't care. But Orcrist and Peace care, and that makes 2, so that's not everyone. Good one.
Man I'm in a raging mood.
Yes, peace, valid point. We need it to be ALL the members. Explicitly explained rules so people can't point to a part and say " Well, this MEANS that you can't do that." We also need no post count. There is NO point! It used to be a way of seeing how long a person had been here, but with all the pointless posts you can get 300 in less than 2 days. If not being deleted, at LEAST reset it. On to the complaing: We are NOT too young that lovely should be replaced by lovely.
WE can [well, most of us anyway, the ones complaining about flames can't] take it if someone makes a banner in their sig about us. Sure, we can make flaming such as " Your an idiot" wrong, but does making the definition of flaming the slightest disapproval really solve anything? I mean, sure, you might feel better at night thinking " That lovely Peace Alliance talked about me and so they gagged him ya, right on!" But it doesn't SOLVE anything! Peace [sorry for using you as an example] will still be mad at whoever it was, and we'll know hes mad from the warning from the mods, so whats the point! Just let it read it as it WAS so we can make our own decisions about the matter. So, just to recap, Reset or deletiong of post count, member drawn charter. Theres my 2 cents.
John Shadeslayer
What is your PROBLEM with me lately? EVERYTHING you posted here was an opinion. You've been ragging on me all day.
What's the point of this friggin post if you don't want anyones opinions?
Quote from: ~>John<~Theres my 2 cents.
Well, apparently John, Kilk doesn't want your two cents or anyone's. Or maybe it's just me.
Quote from: MenatusWhat is your PROBLEM with me lately? EVERYTHING you posted here was an opinion. You've been ragging on me all day.
What's the point of this friggin post if you don't want anyones opinions?
I can understand how he is feeling manatus. Being gagged is NOT something most people shrug off.
I think your point
QuoteNobody cares about anyone's opinions
Is a good one. There is very little respect on these forums for the opinions of others. There could be many reasons for that though.
I agree with you completely, Kilk. These forums are a mess. Everything's going wrong, and all people seem to do these days is flame each other... I think a member-made charter is a great idea.
Here is an interesting article on the use of Complex Systems to Moderate message boards:
http://ai-depot.com/Essay/Moderation-Emergence.htmlI think such a system based upon a user and admin made charter would work quite well, the problem comes with how you would implement such a system (there are some examples given that I find satisfactory), and if an admin would be willing to write one or even accept it. Basically, after writing such a system, one could then filter out low rated users so that difficult problem users could be avoided until an admin/mod can take the required actions.
Another problem that would arise, would be the policing of multiple accounts. You would obviously not want someone with 26 accounts to affect someone's "karma" or "rating" in the specific fields, but multiple accounts can be fun to have for other purposes. So perhaps a one rating of a certain user PER ip address. I realize that some people share IPs and blah blah and there are proxies, but that's not really crucial, and an admin could look into such occurances.
Overall I think this would be a very effective system, if an admin is willing to implement it, I'd be glad to help with any aspect.
EDIT: A quick summary of the article for people who don't want to read it all:
Basically, every user would have a rating in specific fields, which would be the traits of a user. (EX: In our case perhaps: On Topicness, Personality (or some variant to represent how much the person flames), and Depth of Knowledge (or something akin to, do they just spam, or do they make meaningful posts)
Then users could rate another user if perhaps, they see a good/bad post made by the user. Users with a low rating may have a limited amount of posts they can make a day, until after a certain time they learn to stop spamming, and really say what they want in a long thoughtout post. Or some other form of punishment (reporting to admins for a possible gag/ban, or something). Also, the charter would include a community standard for rating, and perhaps the rater's standard (as we all have ideas about what is acceptable).
Thus filtering could be applied (such as on slashdot, and at user's choice), for users that have an average rating below a threshhold ( to be set by the user)
Though, that site is great for anyone interested in emergant systems and artificial intelligence... so I'd recommend you to just read the article and some of the affiliate's articles.
Yeah, I can understand how Kilk is feeling, but what I can't understand his how he doesn't understand how it's making me feeling.
I don't get why some of you think any admin or mod would edit your posts. Granted we've edited other posts before, but only those that broke the rules. As far as I can see, no posts in this topic break the rules.
I'm sorry if I've put a damper on anyone's spirits by editting their posts, but I'm just trying to do a job. If I chose to ignore editting a post, someone would complain, and I'd get blamed again. *sigh*
Sorry, that was off-topic....
Okay, Kilk...I agree with a Member/Admin-drawn charter, its a very good idea and might actually get all this immaturity rating down to a minimum, along with all the flaming and such too.
BUT, Kilk, you've managed to put a lot of the blame on the admins because you were gagged...No, I've never been gagged, yes I would royally be ticked off if I was. No, I don't know why you were gagged, but you are making simple little things such as Retto appointing new admins as something horribly wrong. In fact, is not wrong!! Not wrong at all, he made new admins to help control the problems we're all seeing on the forums today.
Sure, your saying how people need to stop complaining and get over it, whereas you yourself are doing it. How do you expect one to be convinced about what you are saying if you continue to do the samething you are pinning on others?? You don't, that's how...
If you wanna put the blame on someone put it on the members of this forum for not following rules that were established by the admins/creators of RWL. You obviously were content with the rules when you first came to RWL, and not many have been changed or added...A few have, I know, perhaps more than a few, but whose really keeping track now??
The admins/creators of RWL have made modifications and additions to the rules as they see fit to keep the forums a friendly place for all, but members continuously break these rules, so in come the modifications of rules. The modifications and additions of rules makes the forums stricter, but then we all start to complain because its too strict and "no fun."
Well, these newer rules/modifications were made because we were making it no fun for others of the forums. As I see it, these modifications are a type of penalty because members choose not to follow the current rules and then whine because rules where changed. If people would have followed the rules in the first place none of the rules would have been made/changed to "upset" you all, but nobody could do that, so it was done, and I think it should stay that way until we can all get our act together and participate in these forums in a friendly manner.
I agree with Kilk on all his points.Scarwake.But the admins and mods usually don't do anything to stop the flaming and spamming.They will act on certain occasions but most people just get stop that and stuff like that.
I agree with what you have to say Kilk. However, you should respect other members on here. And to put it in simple terms for you. You are being selfish, crude and in all aspects pathetic. Really, by the looks of it the only reason that you have even started this topic was so that you coul 'flame' as you would put it, everyone on the forums in an attempt to not be gagged again.
RESPECT - If you do not understand the word then you should not even be here. If everyone would have respect for everyone else you wouldn't even need rules now would you? Just look at it. No one would make fun of anyone else, no one would get angry and start 'flaming' people. Therefore making this a far better place.
THIS TOPIC - Mostly a load of bull. Sure I can agree with the post count and the charter, however you know as well as I do that if the charter is created someone will get mad and "stick up" for themselves as you would put it, and guess what!? Bam there gone because they broke a rule! All you would be doing is taking away the powers of the admins, placing it in all the members hands. That wouldn't be fun for anyone now would it?
COMPLAINING - As far as you and everyone else complaining goes, the only reason you're doing it is because YOU broke the rules. The only reason you want a charter is so that you can have YOUR rules and punish people for breaking them. Beside you don't need new rules, you just need people to follow them and the admins to 'lighten up' a bit. Oh an Kilk, next time you are angry with the admins you should take it up them instead of waisting our time and putting everyone else down.
Just for the record, I wrote this post knowing the consequences in doing so. I also know it took me a while to write this post because I do not have the freedom of speech, but you know what!? I DON'T CARE!
And Kilk, suck it up and take it like a man. Not like a twelve year old with ADD. I'm sick of you guys complaining about the stupid banner. Give it up already!
Cindarin- Kilk is not full of bull....[You Are Full of Bull]!!! I will now counter all of your points in your last post...
Your first paragraph complains that Kilk is being selfish and crude. Now, explain to me how Kilk states that this forum is a mess is being selfish. Also, people like you, have completely exaggerated the word "flame" and take offence at the slightest prod or joke. Actually "flaming" someone occurs when one insults someone, personally attacking them viciously with extremely vulgar language, not just any insult.
Next- I'll try to make this short, but there is no rule that everyone must have respect for each other on the forums. For instance, after reading your post, and you can quote me on this, I have no respect for you. If you stopped making crappy excuses for flaming people, THEN this forum would be a better place. You're completely wrong about respect. Early on, no one had respect for each other, and debates raged, with people backstabbing and overthrowing each other all the time. It was a great place without respect.
On this topic, if you think it's bull, then don't post here. Your post is what's full of bull, not this topic. The whole point of the member-drawn charter is that people won't HAVE to stick up for themselves, thus making the job for the admins easier and the experience for everyone in the forum better. There is no power transfer going on here.
On complaining: [Kilk Did Not Break the Rules. That's Why He Was Mad At The Whole Gagging Thing. Stop Being [edited] And Say Things That Are True]. Kilk is not asking the admins to lighten up or people to follow his rules. He is trying to keep the forums together before the great veterans are driven away, leaving stupid newbies. He mentions the admins because he wants everyone to know. Believe me, Kilk's smart enough that if he really has a problem with the admins, he'd talk to them about it.
In conclusion, it is not Kilk but YOU who are complaining. YOU take this post like a man. I can almost guarantee that you will complain because I am confronting you on this. Kilk wasn't complaining about the banner- he liked it: it was the admins who disliked and then banned the banner. Once again, get your information right before you post it. Kilk will not ever give it up. Instead, how about YOU give it up? You say you don't care about consequences, but I've been here so long, that they are nonexistent to me. I understand by posting this I could be gagged, banned, etc. Well, to my friends, I care, but for people like you, Cindarin, I don't.
[edited: Please, no all caps and no calling people names. Thanks.]
*looks on sadly* This post started out as an attempt to stop heated arguments between members, and yet here it is...
Orcrist, Cindarin, both of you, chill. This isn't a warning.
*quietly* If any of you are attacking Kilk because of his assumed blame on admins, or lack of respect for other members, I'd like to mention that I support him. If he believes this member-made charter will work, so be it.
It's true he hasn't been the most civil member on these forums lately, but then, who has? Everyone's done their share of grumbling.
I guess nobody really does care about my opinions/feelings.
Kilk just makes me depressed.
Argue about it.
Must I read your incoherent post Ocrist? You see, unlike you, it is very easy for me to just look at the name of the person who posted and to myself, ?Nope don?t need to read that pile of bull. For another point, if it weren?t for the ?flaming? / ?swearing? rules. I would be burning you so badly that you would be crying to your parents to TRY and make me stop. Also it wouldn?t take me much to have over seventeen people coming in here and making you cry every time you open a topic.
Ocrist, has it ever donned on you or anyone else here for that matter, that maybe they have come to realize that there is mroe to life then being on here 24/7? Or that they have outgrown this game and come to a higher level of maturity? Of course YOU haven't because you still have the intelligance of a twelve year old.
Another note: I am glad you don?t care about people like me. Reason being, I don?t care about anyone I can?t meet in flesh and blood (a few exceptions), and I certainly don?t care about people who like to banter on and on about making rules that they could punish people for breaking when they break the rules we currently have. So with that said and all due respect. Shut your mouth, take your hand off of that thing you call manhood, and get a REAL EDUCATION!
I apologies to the admins for my rude behavior, but currently I am enraged beyond comprehension and if anyone has a problem with that they can drive on over to Ottawa and settle it once and for all. If anyone wants to know why I am angry; you can shove it where the sun don?t shine.
Enough. If you want to argue, be crude, flame, etc., do it over PMs or AIM. This is a warning, and this topic is closed. End of discussion.