Redwall: Warlords

Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Firetooth on November 30, 2009, 10:00:53 AM

Title: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on November 30, 2009, 10:00:53 AM
I'm sure I don't just speak for myself when I say all I see lately is "Omg I the best" or "change is coming" or "be prepared-I will destroy you!!!!!!" or "you never stood a chance," etc, with myself being slightly ( :P)guilty of this. It's getting very, very annoying, very, very fast. and you don't impress anyone. Rather, you're just laughed at or annoy people (unless you're somebody like Sevah, but he can back up his threats)
So start proving your threats and such ingame. over half the posts related to turbo atm just seem to be hot air and threats. I would like to see more meaningful discussion and less ego-fueled arguements and pointless threads, and more action ingame.
Ego's and talk can help make the game funner, but not if every post is just that-then it's just incredibly annoying.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on November 30, 2009, 11:10:12 AM
Quoteunless you're somebody like Sevah, but he can back up his threats
Source of issue. Not Sevah, but people saying it's alright for some people to gloat and not others. Who draws the line?
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on November 30, 2009, 12:59:37 PM
I meant that if you can back up your threats it's ok, but most people here don't bother, or find they don't have the skills to one handed take down a clan of 10 or whatever.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on November 30, 2009, 01:16:51 PM
It's not like one person can back up any threat in any situation.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on November 30, 2009, 02:49:30 PM
Quote from: Death on November 30, 2009, 01:16:51 PM
It's not like one person can back up any threat in any situation.
True. I'd be happy if most the threats were followed up to some extent though. Most of them seem to turn to nothing, or like I said, the owner of the threats is too incompetent to follow them out.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Pippin on November 30, 2009, 03:23:16 PM
Quote from: Death on November 30, 2009, 01:16:51 PM
It's not like one person can back up any threat in any situation.

Untrue. I threatened to kill someone and it happened. :)
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on November 30, 2009, 03:35:37 PM
You interpreted it in a way I didn't mean, haha. Think the opposite.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Alazar is Back on November 30, 2009, 10:59:47 PM
Change really is coming. I do believe I proved a little bit of that last set. Up until I was killed, I peacefully netted (except for the takedown of pip.)

He wasnt really even the one to kill me. Ah well I really don't care what any of you people think. ^_^
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on November 30, 2009, 11:26:38 PM
Then why inform us of some kind of supposed change?
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sabriel on December 01, 2009, 03:41:36 AM
Butthurt and tears, lalalalala.
Butthurt and tears, lalalalala.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 01, 2009, 10:01:00 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on November 30, 2009, 10:59:47 PM
Change really is coming. I do believe I proved a little bit of that last set. Up until I was killed, I peacefully netted (except for the takedown of pip.)

He wasnt really even the one to kill me. Ah well I really don't care what any of you people think. ^_^
Note the "except."
Plus:
Quote from: Alazar is Back on November 22, 2009, 01:22:17 PM
I have been a clean player, I have helped with occasional takedowns and the like.
Key bits of info highlighted.
Sorry man, but I don't see how you can complain about being killed when that very statement contradicted itself, and you aren't peaceful if you takedown someone, let alone assist in others.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Pippin on December 01, 2009, 01:01:49 PM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on November 30, 2009, 10:59:47 PM
Change really is coming. I do believe I proved a little bit of that last set. Up until I was killed, I peacefully netted (except for the takedown of pip.)

He wasnt really even the one to kill me. Ah well I really don't care what any of you people think. ^_^

Wouldn't call it a take down, i'd call it sore losers who don't like being out-netted and can't make own cash? And stop keep saying a change is 'really' coming, cause it's making people laugh? :)
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 01, 2009, 01:18:33 PM
Now now pip, I was trying to make a point without offending anybody.What you did there was take it too far :P
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Pippin on December 01, 2009, 01:20:14 PM
Idc it's only bit of fun and games on a forum :)
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Alazar is Back on December 02, 2009, 12:26:41 AM
Pip we had far more net and cash then you. The difference is ours was hidden.

Goosey your quote is from after I was killed If I am correct. I did one takedown that was on pip.

Since when did you get killed everytime you took down someone? Never since I have been here, it used to only happen occasionally.

Quote from: Death on November 30, 2009, 11:26:38 PM
Then why inform us of some kind of supposed change?
Because I felt like it.

Really you can laugh if you like. I pretty sure Noble wasnt laughing much last set when they saw their large lead slipping away from them. The facts to all of this are that my team won the set, and did so in stunning fashion by destroying much of the opposition.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: windhound on December 02, 2009, 01:05:38 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 02, 2009, 12:26:41 AM
Really you can laugh if you like. I pretty sure Noble wasnt laughing much last set when they saw their large lead slipping away from them. The facts to all of this are that my team won the set, and did so in stunning fashion by destroying much of the opposition.

I laughed my butt off when Sevz killed me and a good chunk of Noble's net.  The net wasn't really even a loss, as it neutralized Sevz's.  I think we even came out ahead, if you compare the amount of net destroyed. 

Anyways, if you looked at marketed net, I'm not sure Noble ever had a  lead, much less a large one.  Our net was out in the open, yours was away on the market.  Btw, dont expect to do that again after this current round.  That's not what the market is meant for, and while not code abuse, its something that needs to be fixed.
"Destroying the opposition" is also a bit much imho.  Atleast in Noble's case, the whole clan got real apathetic towards the end.  If you want to view it as "we kicked their butts so bad they all ran away" go ahead, but if the clan had been motivated enough we could have mopped the floor with you at the end.  All that marketed net, the markettheft potential makes me sad we didnt. 
Still.  We didnt, and yall won.  Congrats.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gen. Volkov on December 02, 2009, 01:18:56 AM
Windy... I wouldn't even contribute to this. You have nothing to prove. Everyone who plays this game knows you are one of the best. Let Ally make his boasts, we all know who really made "his" clan the success that it was. As for Noble, you're probably right, but as you also said, it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on December 02, 2009, 01:26:49 AM
For someone who doesn't care what we think you sure do talk a lot, Al.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: The Obliterator on December 02, 2009, 06:19:48 AM
Quote from: Gen. Volkov on December 02, 2009, 01:18:56 AM
Windy... I wouldn't even contribute to this. You have nothing to prove. Everyone who plays this game knows you are one of the best. Let Ally make his boasts, we all know who really made "his" clan the success that it was. As for Noble, you're probably right, but as you also said, it doesn't matter.

Who?
There Was only me ally and snare.
It was his clan.
We basicly did our own thing untill the end and ally was the one who organised almost all the takdowns i helped with.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Shadow on December 02, 2009, 06:24:55 AM
If it was just you, ally, and snare, then you guys took 9th and 15th in the immort. So if you claim any kind of win, you also acknowledge Sevs as your clan member, since it was him that did most of the damage in thie first place. And even then, Nova won without any help from your clan. Lol.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 02, 2009, 10:27:23 AM
This thread has already proved the problem plauging our forums, as below quotes shows:

Quote from: Death on December 02, 2009, 01:26:49 AM
For someone who doesn't care what we think you sure do talk a lot, Al.

<Most people opinions
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 02, 2009, 12:26:41 AM

Really you can laugh if you like. I pretty sure Noble wasnt laughing much last set when they saw their large lead slipping away from them. The facts to all of this are that my team won the set, and did so in stunning fashion by destroying much of the opposition.
<Ego uber post

Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Alazar is Back on December 03, 2009, 12:12:24 AM
Quote from: Shadow on December 02, 2009, 06:24:55 AM
If it was just you, ally, and snare, then you guys took 9th and 15th in the immort. So if you claim any kind of win, you also acknowledge Sevs as your clan member, since it was him that did most of the damage in thie first place. And even then, Nova won without any help from your clan. Lol.

Nova did win with our help. He may have made it with out but alot of that was ours. Sevz did his own thing almost the entire set until maybe the last week.

Windy is a good player, very good. I have worked with him a few times in the past.

You could have tried to market theft Nova who was unclanned the entire time, but with the leader defense he put up it would have been really hard.

Death and Firetooth: You are right in a way. I should have put it a different way...I don't care if you guys think im bragging and making "false" threats. I do get annoyed when people down play my teams ability though. And I will defend them and myself to the end no matter what any of you say.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on December 03, 2009, 12:31:02 AM
But why do you think it needs to be said on the forum? I would guess that the majority of the people here are sailing the "I DON'T CARE" ship to sea right with you.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 03, 2009, 08:25:37 AM

I laughed my butt off when Sevz killed me and a good chunk of Noble's net.  The net wasn't really even a loss, as it neutralized Sevz's.  I think we even came out ahead, if you compare the amount of net destroyed.


hahahahha
i laughed my butt off too, the way i saw it. Nobles wanted to take me down when i vacated, held a grudge and talked trash til i came back, i returned from vacation with $3.5b net, i sold down to $2bil net, aided some, standard attacked Nobles top 2 empires to nothing, you died, shadow had $38m net from +$500m, spared a few turns to poison the indies, cloaked and bought troops.
10minutes later people started logging in
overall, it's not easy to say who's gonna win, it comes down to team force and initiative. Solo players get beaten by 2 players, 1 producer plus 1 attacker beats any soloist. No ego from me, i'm nasty and i like it back
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Alazar is Back on December 03, 2009, 11:00:50 AM
Quote from: Death on December 03, 2009, 12:31:02 AM
But why do you think it needs to be said on the forum? I would guess that the majority of the people here are sailing the "I DON'T CARE" ship to sea right with you.

Because I can say it on the forum.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 03, 2009, 11:12:59 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 03, 2009, 11:00:50 AM
Quote from: Death on December 03, 2009, 12:31:02 AM
But why do you think it needs to be said on the forum? I would guess that the majority of the people here are sailing the "I DON'T CARE" ship to sea right with you.

Because I can say it on the forum.
Not good enough. Like the guy who climbed mount everest because "it was there."
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on December 03, 2009, 03:06:00 PM
I think the real point of this discussion is that I'm better than all of you.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 03, 2009, 03:10:56 PM
Quote from: Death on December 03, 2009, 03:06:00 PM
I think the real point of this discussion is that I'm better than all of you.
darn straight.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 08, 2009, 01:01:57 AM
Sevz is the Ultimate
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Juska on December 08, 2009, 11:16:39 PM
Why did you delete your turbo empire?
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 09, 2009, 07:45:01 AM
So i can win under a different name
Baleful Severing #45
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Checkerpaw on December 10, 2009, 06:46:35 PM
Quote from: Sevz on December 09, 2009, 07:45:01 AM
So i can win under a different name
Baleful Severing #45

That's a lame name.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 10, 2009, 09:08:54 PM
Lord of Baleful Suffering, if you knew what it meant, you'd hide worse than you do now.

Who wants to see me in action?
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: windhound on December 11, 2009, 10:26:23 AM
I do!
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 11, 2009, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Checkerpaw on December 10, 2009, 06:46:35 PM
Quote from: Sevz on December 09, 2009, 07:45:01 AM
So i can win under a different name
Baleful Severing #45

That's a lame name.
Checkerpaw's a lame name.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Alazar is Back on December 12, 2009, 01:57:40 AM
Nice flame bait goosey. Lay off dude.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 12, 2009, 03:35:35 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 12, 2009, 01:57:40 AM
Nice flame bait goosey. Lay off dude.
Checker baited first. If he can bait, I'll bait.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Alazar is Back on December 13, 2009, 12:49:13 AM
Quote from: Firetooth on December 12, 2009, 03:35:35 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 12, 2009, 01:57:40 AM
Nice flame bait goosey. Lay off dude.
Checker baited first. If he can bait, I'll bait.

How old are you again? You sound like a 6 year old. Grow up dude. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Holby on December 13, 2009, 05:34:31 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 13, 2009, 12:49:13 AM
Quote from: Firetooth on December 12, 2009, 03:35:35 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 12, 2009, 01:57:40 AM
Nice flame bait goosey. Lay off dude.
Checker baited first. If he can bait, I'll bait.

How old are you again? You sound like a 6 year old. Grow up dude. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Exactly. So don't flame, Alazar. ;)
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 13, 2009, 07:55:26 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 13, 2009, 12:49:13 AM
Quote from: Firetooth on December 12, 2009, 03:35:35 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 12, 2009, 01:57:40 AM
Nice flame bait goosey. Lay off dude.
Checker baited first. If he can bait, I'll bait.

How old are you again? You sound like a 6 year old. Grow up dude. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Thank you for expressing your opinion on the matter.
But I thought you supported the death penalty...isn't that just that, though? You know, the two wrongs part.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gorak on December 13, 2009, 02:12:58 PM
This topic should probably get locked
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Shadow on December 13, 2009, 03:33:06 PM
It will be if it continues offtopic and flaming.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 13, 2009, 08:37:59 PM
Sevz iz tha King
Bow down and bask in my glow.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Wolf Snare on December 13, 2009, 10:35:07 PM
vouch 
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Neobaron on December 13, 2009, 11:52:19 PM
Snare always latches on to the power players.

Anyone else notice this trend over the last few years?
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 14, 2009, 12:37:36 AM
I think your mistaken for Peace Alliance
Snares the guy to call if you want a team of good players taken down
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Wolf Snare on December 14, 2009, 12:45:40 AM
I am the definition of power, my friend. Phear me or I will be wiping your blood off my blade with my morning coffee.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: The Obliterator on December 14, 2009, 07:07:24 AM
I dont think it would work real well.
And are you gonna drink the coffee afterwards.
That would be just gross
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on December 14, 2009, 10:02:43 AM
Quote from: Wolf Snare on December 14, 2009, 12:45:40 AM
I am the definition of power, my friend. Phear me or I will be wiping your blood off my blade with my morning coffee.
I'm that +1
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Wolf Snare on December 14, 2009, 03:17:37 PM
lmao oblit, I guess my wording was a little questionable. I meant, I'd be wiping his blood off my blade with a rag whilst I indulged in my morning coffee. Implying, of course, that I'd kill him first thing in the morning because it would be such an easy task that I may as well do it in my sleep.

Or something like that. ;)
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Alazar is Back on December 15, 2009, 12:32:43 AM
Quote from: Neobaron on December 13, 2009, 11:52:19 PM
Snare always latches on to the power players.

Anyone else notice this trend over the last few years?

Are you confused? Most people latch onto Snare imho. Myself included. ;)

But I do my fair share of work and I believe I have earned my standing with him. :)
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on December 15, 2009, 01:34:10 AM
I get yelled at by Snare. That's even better.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gen. Volkov on December 15, 2009, 03:51:03 PM
QuoteI get yelled at by Snare. That's even better.

And I yell at Snare... so where does that put me? LOL.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Wolf Snare on December 15, 2009, 04:11:28 PM
Death, you know i am sorry about that :/

Volk, you're just the crazy scientist guy that concocts atrocities like me in your petree dish.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gen. Volkov on December 15, 2009, 05:24:17 PM
QuoteVolk, you're just the crazy scientist guy that concocts atrocities like me in your petree dish.

Muhahahahaha!


Also, it's spelled "petri" dish, and we use them mostly to breed bacteria.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 15, 2009, 09:47:30 PM
How big can we make this bacteria? Will they become fighters?
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gen. Volkov on December 15, 2009, 11:54:46 PM
QuoteHow big can we make this bacteria? Will they become fighters?

The biggest bacteria known is still smaller than a human skin cell. There is a limit to what size you can be when you don't a have nucleus. The biggest cells of all are egg cells, but even then they are mostly just storehouses. For anything in the macro world, that is, stuff you can see without a microscope, you need to be multicellular to be useful in a direct sense. Cells have a size limit for functionality. That said, there are some very useful things you can do with bacteria that can ultimately have effects on the macro world. You can modify bacteria to break down cellulose into ethanol, for example. If you wish to do harm, some of the worst poisons in the world are made by single celled critters.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gorak on December 16, 2009, 01:19:37 AM
mmmmmmmmmmmm
tastes like Anthrax
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gen. Volkov on December 17, 2009, 02:00:07 AM
Yes, anthrax would be one of those bacteria that produces lethal toxins, though some of what kills a person infected with anthrax is the bodies own response to the infection.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on December 17, 2009, 10:20:00 AM
Quote from: Wolf Snare on December 15, 2009, 04:11:28 PM
Death, you know i am sorry about that :/
Hahah, don't worry about it, I've never been the type to care much for what anyone has to say about or to me.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 19, 2009, 12:12:04 AM
I want some mini frankenstein critters, a bunch of 1ft tall hulks
I'd use 1 as a footrest while i sit back and watch the others rampage
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gen. Volkov on December 19, 2009, 12:46:25 PM
LOL, I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on December 23, 2009, 09:29:13 PM
It'll be good to see everyone gang up on whoever hits The Lord of Baleful Suffering
much gratitude for my mates

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sevz, Biggest Ego, Biggest Talker and Biggest Empire
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on January 01, 2010, 12:31:56 AM
*1     ?     Lord of Baleful Suffering (#420)     274,782     $1,840,859,529     None     Wolf     Mossflower
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Checkerpaw on January 02, 2010, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: Firetooth on December 12, 2009, 03:35:35 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 12, 2009, 01:57:40 AM
Nice flame bait goosey. Lay off dude.
Checker baited first. If he can bait, I'll bait.

Ah, it's good to see Firetooth, showing some of that maturity for which he is so well known for in these here parts.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on January 02, 2010, 04:32:23 PM
Quote from: Checkerpaw on January 02, 2010, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: Firetooth on December 12, 2009, 03:35:35 AM
Quote from: Alazar is Back on December 12, 2009, 01:57:40 AM
Nice flame bait goosey. Lay off dude.
Checker baited first. If he can bait, I'll bait.

Ah, it's good to see Firetooth, showing some of that maturity for which he is so well known for in these here parts.
Coming from someone who had the emperor as his avatar...
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Gorak on January 02, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I'm sick of both of you children
use PMs and spare the rest of us you limp wristed [dog] fest

now, to get back on topic
I just made over half a bill net on reg in one run without receiving aid

there, I've achieved my bragging quota for the time being
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on January 03, 2010, 06:22:00 AM
Quote from: Gorak on January 02, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I'm sick of both of you children
use PMs and spare the rest of us you limp wristed [dog] fest

now, to get back on topic
I just made over half a bill net on reg in one run without receiving aid

there, I've achieved my bragging quota for the time being
Actually, Checker tried using PM's before...
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Checkerpaw on January 03, 2010, 07:43:20 AM
Quote from: Firetooth on January 03, 2010, 06:22:00 AM
Quote from: Gorak on January 02, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I'm sick of both of you children
use PMs and spare the rest of us you limp wristed [dog] fest

now, to get back on topic
I just made over half a bill net on reg in one run without receiving aid

there, I've achieved my bragging quota for the time being
Actually, Checker tried using PM's before...

I didn't try, I did, just to hammer a point home.  I know it bothered you too, because you kept replying.   ;)

Incidentally, you appear you to be mistakenly confusing Star Wars with Teletubbies.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Firetooth on January 03, 2010, 08:04:41 AM
Quote from: Checkerpaw on January 03, 2010, 07:43:20 AM
Quote from: Firetooth on January 03, 2010, 06:22:00 AM
Quote from: Gorak on January 02, 2010, 10:56:38 PM
I'm sick of both of you children
use PMs and spare the rest of us you limp wristed [dog] fest

now, to get back on topic
I just made over half a bill net on reg in one run without receiving aid

there, I've achieved my bragging quota for the time being
Actually, Checker tried using PM's before...
I didn't try, I did, just to hammer a point home.  I know it bothered you too, because you kept replying.   ;)

Incidentally, you appear you to be mistakenly confusing Star Wars with Teletubbies.
Episode three could be mistaken for a teletubby episode with explosions when tinky-winky falls to the darkside.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Shadow on January 03, 2010, 09:18:41 AM
Stop it.

Topic will get locked if it keeps up.

Shadow
Mod Duties
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on January 03, 2010, 07:40:18 PM
Sorry for giving ya such a hard time Shadow, i'm the big dog and you like to make me look small. You do very good at insulting me but it doesn't justify my aggression. You have a valid point that i should find a more mature way to deal with it. See ya on the battle field
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Shadow on January 03, 2010, 07:43:20 PM
Good for you, champ.

Wrong topic though.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Sevz on January 03, 2010, 08:17:12 PM
I have a heap of trouble coping with people running me down. In real life i'd just punch some teeth in for doing me my friends wrong. Online i'm a helpless little fish in a flaming ocean. Please bare with me while i tone it down. I'll do my best to stop offending people.
Title: Re: Ego's and talk
Post by: Death on January 12, 2010, 07:13:43 PM
Gorak really is better than all of you too, though.