Redwall: Warlords

A note:

"Golden age" is a term referring to an older era of RWL. "Platinum age" is the current era, however the only person I've seen use the term is Purpy D haha.

Anyway, into the topic. There was a large debate over this way back in the begining of the turbo round in the "dispensation of justice" thread. Most of the oldbies seemed convinced RWL needed to return to the old days, but after last round I would like to contest that point as the round was definetly one of the worst I've played for a long time. I don't have the time atm to write a massive long post, so I'll leave you to discuss, and summarize my points in a list:

• The supposed return of diplomacy didn't work because it became an overpowering force and meant you couldn't enjoy the game as you were too focus on all the background stuff...for 2 days I couldn't run because I didn't trust anybody to hold my net
• On that note, the spies everywhere also kind of ruined the round as you didn't know who to trust or who to accept into your clan
• The "RWL IS NOT HAPPY PONY RAISING FOOLS!" attitude also stunk. A bunch of kills held back everybodies net and just meant that the clans with the most manpowers prevailed opposed to those with the most skill
• Even though I actually support the return of rp posts, nobody else bothered except TS (one of the few things I will congratulate him on) so it didn't work and everybody was still as bitter towards everyone else as before

Firefight are you effing serious? This round was far from a failurein terms  of action and activity, the only thing that brought this round down was you whining about other players every few days.

Again you can't knock the old days if you never experienced it. It's true it's impossible to make things the way they once were but old players are coming back and the forums have not been this fun or active in YEARS so stop complaining!

Firefight again, lol.

And no, if you think this is a thread because I'm bitter, your wrong. I won't name drop anybody, but most people seem to acknowledge this was not a good round. If you want to brush away my points, fine. I'm offering my opinion on a debate which is ongoing, and all you seem to be able to do is insult and ignore me.

Edit: That's my point. Activity is good, but that shouldn't effect the game. I think it's no co-incidence that this round had so many oldbies and was so unenjoyable because of the whole diplomacy row. Also, hypocritical to knock me for not experiencing the old days when most the people calling for a return to the old days are oldbies and haven't experienced the current rounds or played the game for years...people need to accept that things change.

Last round was in no way a callback to the golden age. It would have been, if people had fought back. But they didn't.


That is the point the oldies were trying to make: People now are afraid to go to war, because everything is personal now. It shouldn't be. And people made it even more personal last round. Which is why it sucked (and it did suck). But it was not at all anything like the golden age. Not even close.

The diplomacy area was similar to "the golden age," or at least people such as Neo seem to want diplomacy to have a larger role. And, as I said, things were personal because of the diplomacy, mainly the MSN convo's. I tried RP'ing and nobody else bothered except TS.

Also, what about the kills? That was because of the old days attitude. Right from the start, 3kills for the shocking crime of sacking somebody!

No, the diplomacy was nothing like the golden age. It was attempted, and within KM it was, but the way that other clans interacted with it was not at all like it was back then.

Not that it could be expected to change so quickly! I didn't expect it to suddenly revert, and I don't think anyone else did. But it is a start, and as soon as people stop taking attacks and broken alliances personally, you will be able to experience what they actually mean by it.

For example, Kilk and I were often on msn while Lucy and I were taking down his teammates. It was fun! Trash talk and all. (Stupid Kilk). But it was not personal. That's what it should be.

That's my point. I never said it was identical, and I should clarify that as a more recent player, I do not pretend to fully understand all the golden age etiquette, but as you said, it was a start, and the worst round I can remember was synonymous with that start.

Edit: With Kilk, I was mainly accused and called "self-absorbed." I wouldn't say our interactions were all negative, but they were hardly the way you describe it. With MSN, it's impossible to moderate and tell what is and isn't personal. I agree, things shouldn't be so personal. Which is why I'm so annoyed nobody else bothered rp-posting.

Now who isn't accepting change? ^_^

It's all in fun. We just need to get back to that mentality as a group, and things will come out for the better, I think.

But you can do your part to stop it, and make things fun at the same time, by fighting back and owning poeple! I know you're good at it, we have done takedowns together before. Stop worrying about the fallout, I promise that nobody pushing for this change will take things personally.

If I was not confined to typing responses on my phone I would certainly respond to your points in full. As it stands for now I will attempt to answer as best I can.

The reason those people initially called this a bad round was because they tried to make it fun but others whined about it.

I still don't understand why this debate is even necessary because obviously with all this activity and competition the RWL Revolution is doing something right. You can't argue with the proof of activity. The newbies are having a blast too... Firetooth the only one not having fun is you.

Initially? Every poster in this thread who played the round admitted it was rubbish.

The debate is necessary because if you wish to change the site, the players should at least be able to express their opinions. Also, I don't think this round was as active as you seem to be trying to get across, and there really wasn't any competition at all.

Finally, revolutions are boring. Often, the changes don't change anything or are worse, and eventually you end back where you started. Hence the "revolve."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_%28geometry%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_%28geometry%29)

Quote from: The Lady Shael on May 29, 2011, 02:31:21 PM
the only thing that brought this round down was you whining about other players every few days.

Firetooths wining may have been slightly annoying, and he never seems to like letting a point go  :D ,but I can see some justifications for his whining this round

I'm not going to go ranting (and my opinion probably doesn't count for much after this round) but I can say that this is one of the least enjoyable rounds that I've played

*might make a longer post here later, can't be bothered atm*

QuoteInitially? The two posters in this thread who actually played the round have both said the round sucked...

We think it sucked for very different reasons. Once I left the clans and started taking people own I had a blast.

QuoteThe debate is necessary because if you wish to change the site, the players should at least be able to express their opinions. Also, I don't think this round was as active as you seem to be trying to get across, and there really wasn't any competition at all.

Yes, but that was the fault of the potential competition, not KM. They tried very hard to make it competitive, but nobody fought back. It wasn't active precisely because of what RWL has become, these past few years. And I admit that I am at least partly at fault for that.

Exactly, once you left the clans, because the diplomacy completely ruined that aspect throughs spies and the such.

Shadow, you and nobody else are at fault for this. People play in the way they want to play. Demanding they change their style because things have changed is, in my opinion, very arrogant and is ignoring a large part of your current playerbase.

Harsh ^_^ But yes, some of the changes I have pushed through have lead to reduced competition, and I am in the process of rethinking those.

I am not demanding that anybody change their playing style. Just that they remain open to the way the oldies play. It was a lot of fun, and this round was not it.

Quote from: Shadow on May 29, 2011, 02:54:57 PM
They tried very hard to make it competitive, but nobody fought back.

Trying to make it competitive by Allying with the second biggest clan then destroying the third biggest clan from the inside doesn't seem to be a great way of making it competitive, I suppose it made a lot of people angry enough to destroy a ton of net though

Quote from: Shadow on May 29, 2011, 02:39:00 PM
That is the point the oldies were trying to make: People now are afraid to go to war, because everything is personal now. It shouldn't be. And people made it even more personal last round. Which is why it sucked (and it did suck). But it was not at all anything like the golden age. Not even close.

True everything is personal now, I'll admit I took a few things personally this round, which I didn't realise I was doing, and if this round has taught me anything it's that I've got to try and not do that in the future. But trying to make the game more impersonal will have casualties, it looks like Varg has already gone inactive in both games and forums ( I may be wrong here ) because of this.

I can also see how some people might take this personally, working hard netting for a month then getting it destroyed for little to no reason would probably annoy the most detached of people

Lol, I think you misinterpreted that. I was saying you shouldn't blame yourself as people have adpated to the changes and enjoy them. Once you've given somebody an xbox 360, they are not going to want to go back to an original xbox, for example. The newer player base will not want to go back to the old ways, and by encouraging all this "golden age" stuff you are pretty much forcing people to play the odl way, or receive criticisim if they say otherwise.

I just think the staff are being very one sided and not considering other views. Look at Shael's first sentence:

Quote"Firefight are you effing serious?"

If you don't treat other people's views with respect, you are throwing fuel onto a fire. I am actually pretty dissapointed to be treated this way. I thought the community was more valued.

The change in particular that I was thinking of was making leader takedowns near-impossible. While it ddoes make for a peaceful netfest, I don't think this is at all in line with the philosophy of the game. So reverting it was important. And it will mean easier destruction, but it also means more interaction.

Quote from: Shadow on May 29, 2011, 03:05:16 PM
The change in particular that I was thinking of was making leader takedowns near-impossible. While it ddoes make for a peaceful netfest, I don't think this is at all in line with the philosophy of the game.

I actually agree leader takedowns shouldn't be impossible, and I think the current changes are working well. I'm more reffering to the sudden "peace is for the weak" and "diplomacy should be a central role" attitudes. War s obviously a central part of the game, but the focus is becoming distorted too much. PA played several times without so much as an attack, and he's an admin. I agree war's are good, but the whole killfest and other tactics are getting quite annoying.

For the record: there was only ever a single spy that I am aware of (pacman) and he was inactive most of the round. So most of that was perception rather than actual problems.

Yes, the kills were kinda lame. And there were lots of them.

It isn't that diplomacy needs to be central its that INTERACTION needs to be central. The last few months there has been very little interaction outside of clans/individuals. That's what was attempted this round. And it didn't work all that well, but that is not because it is boring or lame in general, it is just because it is different and nobody really knew how to react to it.

QuoteFor example, Kilk and I were often on msn while Lucy and I were taking down his teammates. It was fun! Trash talk and all. (Stupid Kilk). But it was not personal. That's what it should be.

This is the important point. This, more than anything else, is what characterized what we call the golden age. Not diplomacy, or bloodbaths, but the ability to be bitter enemies in character and great friends outside of the game. That is what we have lost. And that is what people are trying to bring back.

There were several spies. At least one, possibly two, in my clan.

Interaction is good, but not necessarily diplomacy. My model round would be the race ladder smile round, not just because I won. Lots of net, variety of tactics, two big teams and a close finish. Plenty of interaction, too, just in the form of trash talk and such opposed to "hey, why did you do ____" and "what I never infact you did ______"

Bitter enemies ic and friends oc is cool, but the sudden shift to diplomacy literally ruling the round, spies and all, was not cool. Also, as I said, there was no ic. Only oc.

Edit: Purpy D says they prefer the current RWL. And they were around in the golden age.

I think you have the misconception that the RWL community is "choosing" to play the old way, as though it is a democratic vote or something. It is not that, it is that there are two groups playing with very different styles. Nobody is making anyone else play their way, they are just asking that you don't get mad at them for doing it. And if changes nee to happen to make the styles compatible, then they will happen naturally. It is not a choice or rationalization, it is just evolution. No point arguing with it, because it just happens (this works on a number of levels. coughkyrocough).

This round was nothing like the 'golden age'.

It wasn't intended to be.

The Revolution isn't intended to restore the golden age.

The Revolution is intended to break this pass-agg elitist/posturing garbage that has taken precedence in RWL and replace it with a 'community that also has a game' atmosphere.

---

Related, I threw the pebble that has become our RWL nightly MSN chats.

It was calculated that it would grow into something enjoyable for everyone that would break these visages and allow us to actually ENJOY THE SHENANIGANS and see further humor in them.

Anyone who has joined us will agree that it's all in fun.

The entire time Lucy and Shadow were taking down Volkov, they were literally talking to Kilk on MSN - AND LAUGHING AT THE SITUATION.

It will continue to be in fun.

The only one with an issue about the direction here is you, Firetooth, and perhaps Sharpy and a couple others who would necessarily be displaced by a culture change.

Whining here will not stop the flood. We're going to make this fun again - in and out of the game - whether you like it or not.

Quote from: Neobaron on May 29, 2011, 04:11:46 PM
The only one with an issue about the direction here is you, Firetooth, and perhaps Sharpy and a couple others who would necessarily be displaced by a culture change.

I don't like change . . . but if this continues I'll get used to it, probably come to enjoy it with time

Quote from: Neobaron on May 29, 2011, 04:11:46 PM
Related, I threw the pebble that has become our RWL nightly MSN chats.

Different timezone = No MSN Chats  :( unless stay up until about 11PM, which I have taken to doing a bit lately.

the msn chats usually span most of the day, with various people dropping in and out. You are in the same time zone as ashy (roughly) and she usually makes it for a while.  Chances are if you see me online you can ask for an invite (do I have you on msn? pm me you address if you want me to add you. I generally say no to people who add me without telling me who they are first).

Already added you on MSN, I'm "seandu@live.co.uk" think I chatted with you once

Yea you're on there. My msn has been weird lately and making me appear offline, but you can always try to talk to me anyway and see if I am there haha.

Quote from: Shadow on May 29, 2011, 04:01:51 PM
I think you have the misconception that the RWL community is "choosing" to play the old way, as though it is a democratic vote or something. It is not that, it is that there are two groups playing with very different styles. Nobody is making anyone else play their way, they are just asking that you don't get mad at them for doing it. And if changes nee to happen to make the styles compatible, then they will happen naturally. It is not a choice or rationalization, it is just evolution. No point arguing with it, because it just happens (this works on a number of levels. coughkyrocough).

Well, Shael and others seem to be pushing for a return of the old days to be encouraged at the very least. That impedes my style of play as newer players will instead be taught by the older standards, and most players will react to me differently ingame. Also, I won't be able to keep up if huge diplomatic stuff is mandatory for clan play, alongside spies.

I'd disagree that this is evolution, seeing as generally evolution is an improvement, or at least something that helps the species better pass on their genes. Going back to the old days is, in many ways, going backwards. I know your using the phrase less from a biological standpoint, but it doesn't work:

1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

Things are going backwards if we return to kills, huge diplo etc. A testament to this is the low net produced this round-me and holby solo produced over half the net KM did at their peak with 4indies ! (I produced 600bil cash)

Not only that, many people don't want to return to this playstyle, but the oldbies seem to be unable to accept that. If they haven't played on the site for years, I don't know why they are so insistent that the old ways are better.

Anyway, I'm off to revise now.

nice last line lol

Edit: Neo, honestly what is this I don't even...your saying the community needs to overwhelm the game? I like the community here (though honestly lately I'm not sure why), but that is a stupid philopshy. The game is plenty fun as it was, and your supposed improvements have actually made the game less fun so far...also, you are acting like a huge elitist. You aren't a staff member, stop acting like you have any control over where the game goes. All you seem to want to do is create cliques of people who can enjoy the game where as the game is intended for younger audiences! What interest will 10 year olds, the main target audience, want to do with a bunch of adults in msn convos and forum chats? You seem to have no grasp of what your changes actually mean, as you seem to forget this game is also for younger audiences, and most people here started young.

Basically, they'll benefit the few that are closer friends and alienate the rest. Which is not good, and I am generally surprised you think so. I'm already starting to notice the emergence of the RWL msn chat clique. There's nothing wrong with you being friends, but I think if you're saying that people need to be close to each other to enjoy the game then you're wrong. Cliques always have and always will alienate people...as I said, my problem is not that there is a msn clique, but that this seems to be your idea of a good community. ???

Now I am generally off to revise. Night.

The old style of play impedes yours. But your style of play impedes theirs. Why should they be the ones to change? Why should you? As I said, this will happen naturally, and we will probably end up somewhere in between.

You are getting very hung up on the spies. That wasn't really a big part of anything. It just sort of happened last round.

The "diplomacy" you are speaking of as a bad thing is exactly the IC/OC thing - enemies in game, friends outside of it. It's not joining other clans for protection or nonsense like that, it's just a general term for how you interact with others.

Clique indeed. There is no clique. You are making that up entirely in your head. There is just people who are not bothered by different play styles, and those that are, and sooner or later everyone will forget that it even happened.

You are completely ignoring the parts that you choose to ignore in favor of trying to say that your way is the right way and ours is the wrong way to play. That is insulting and outright wrong. You are taking a situation that saw you not the victor of as an excuse to lead a crusade against something that you cannot argue is not good for the community. The fact that anyone here skips rounds and does not play, but still stays active on the forums is indicative that this is a community first, and a game second. Just because a lot of us hang out on MSN together does not mean that we are aligned in every single way. Most of us are in different clans, or in no clan at all, in fact. In Reg, we are all in different clans and still hang out. Our roster of nightly chats in relation to last Turbo round also included a lot of people who either don't play, or people that we don't play with.

The fact that you are the only one that is arguing about going "back" to some kind of playstyle is laughable. Your slanted view of things comes from the fact that the person that you have the most contact with (Sharptooth, who has been handling things very well and appears to be able to separate) is also on your side saying that everything is lame and the "MSN Crew" are a pile of hitlers. You use this logic to justify saying that you think that "many" people have a huge problem with it. Let me give you a list of the people who have come on and have joined us to hang out in the last several days:

Briar
Ungatt
Kilkenne
Neobaron
Volkov
Shael
Shadow
Genevieve
Holby
Abby the Rat
Vargarth
Twilight Shadow
The Purple Dragon
Ashyra
Kell
Peace Alliance
Ruddertail
Windhound
++Like 3-4 peoples' girlfriends/other friends


And the list can go on. That's by my count, without counting you or your brother. You are trying to tell me that all of us are one huge clique and do things together in a way that is malicious towards the community? We are in different clans, have different game goals, and can separate the two things quite readily. Newsflash: We are the community. So are you, and you have made the choice to not be a part of this part of it. Don't use your timezone as an excuse because we have something going or can make something all throughout the day. If you don't want to participate, that's your prerogative. If this is a game first, and a community second, or some balance, then excuse me for getting it all wrong. Maybe you should just not log on the forums anymore and play however you can just using the clan forum. It would be easier on your mental state than just panicking nonstop about every little thing that doesn't go your way.

There have been people that choose not to get on MSN with us that we interact with just fine, as well. I like Pac-man and Krowdon, Daryn and Siegemaster, they've all been around the block with us. But they don't come on MSN and that's their choice. We respect your guys' right to not come on here, and can interact through the forums. To say that it is 100% necessary to be on with us and then to say that those that aren't on are horribly hamstrung/disadvantaged is an insulting joke.

I hope you stop making serious posts soon, because you're seriously coming off the bigger jerk here.

Quote from: Kilkenne on May 29, 2011, 04:39:47 PM
You are completely ignoring the parts that you choose to ignore in favor of trying to say that your way is the right way and ours is the wrong way to play. That is insulting and outright wrong. You are taking a situation that saw you not the victor of as an excuse to lead a crusade against something that you cannot argue is not good for the community. The fact that anyone here skips rounds and does not play, but still stays active on the forums is indicative that this is a community first, and a game second. Just because a lot of us hang out on MSN together does not mean that we are aligned in every single way. Most of us are in different clans, or in no clan at all, in fact. In Reg, we are all in different clans and still hang out. Our roster of nightly chats in relation to last Turbo round also included a lot of people who either don't play, or people that we don't play with.

The fact that you are the only one that is arguing about going "back" to some kind of playstyle is laughable. Your slanted view of things comes from the fact that the person that you have the most contact with (Sharptooth, who has been handling things very well and appears to be able to separate) is also on your side saying that everything is lame and the "MSN Crew" are a pile of hitlers. You use this logic to justify saying that you think that "many" people have a huge problem with it. Let me give you a list of the people who have come on and have joined us to hang out in the last several days:

Briar
Ungatt
Kilkenne
Neobaron
Volkov
Shael
Shadow
Genevieve
Holby
Abby the Rat
Vargarth
Twilight Shadow
The Purple Dragon
Ashyra
Kell
Peace Alliance
Ruddertail
Windhound
++Like 3-4 peoples' girlfriends/other friends


And the list can go on. That's by my count, without counting you or your brother. You are trying to tell me that all of us are one huge clique and do things together in a way that is malicious towards the community? We are in different clans, have different game goals, and can separate the two things quite readily. Newsflash: We are the community. So are you, and you have made the choice to not be a part of this part of it. Don't use your timezone as an excuse because we have something going or can make something all throughout the day. If you don't want to participate, that's your prerogative. If this is a game first, and a community second, or some balance, then excuse me for getting it all wrong. Maybe you should just not log on the forums anymore and play however you can just using the clan forum. It would be easier on your mental state than just panicking nonstop about every little thing that doesn't go your way.

There have been people that choose not to get on MSN with us that we interact with just fine, as well. I like Pac-man and Krowdon, Daryn and Siegemaster, they've all been around the block with us. But they don't come on MSN and that's their choice. We respect your guys' right to not come on here, and can interact through the forums. To say that it is 100% necessary to be on with us and then to say that those that aren't on are horribly hamstrung/disadvantaged is an insulting joke.

I hope you stop making serious posts soon, because you're seriously coming off the bigger jerk here.

I'm arguing about the game, not the community, although the whole MSN thing is an issue. I cannot recall once being invited to, or a huge MSN chat, ever being mentioned, so I wonder why you are having a huge go at me for not joining a discussion that I was not invited to, or was aware existed. Hence it is a clique, or at least if it s a community, one your are all excluding me from. Which raises several questions, including you seeming to be obsessed that I willingly exclude myself from your convos. Also, as you said several individuals such as Daryn and Krowdon don't engage in MSN convos at all...you and Jon seem to think that all this MSN community stuff should play a large role, but it is already excluding key members of the community, and will continue to exclude future members.

Also, me and Sharp living together is ridiculous reasoning for my views. Me and him agree on several things, read around. This is one thing we happen to agree on, and even then our views are definetly and clearly different...I realize many people seem to prefer the current game/community status.

Know something else? About 90% of them are oldbies, because most of the community atm are oldbies. Which is not good, as we need progression, not regression back into the old ways and habits as you all seem to favour. This should show the community hasn't actually grown at all, older members have just come back. The community here is one of the reasons this game/site is great, but you're making it too close (if that is possible) and making outsiders feel excluded. We need people who can think of ways to make the game progress forward and develop into something better, not people who are just scared of new play styles and shocked that their old way of playing has gone. Adapt, develop, but don't force your views on those who won't accept it.

And yes, this is a game first. If you want a community, surely you can all have your MSN convo? This was created as a promisance game, not a social centre. It's cool if you want to get friendly with people, but don't let the lines blur. The community exists because of and (in most cases) to play the game. You just seem to have this strange idea that the game is some side-thought and should be neglected, and that the community is the main centre just because those who don't play stick around.  The forums should augment the game and allow people to get to know their rivals and opponents closer and retain relations with them when they're not playing. It's cool if you want to make some huge MSN convo, but excluding those you don't invite or those who don't have MSN doesn't make it representive of the community as you seem to think so.
--

Anyway, back to the topic, I was reffering to the changes in game, but people seem hung up on the community, which I suppose is related.

Forcing people to use the forums to play the game is bad anyway, all this convuluted other stuff is even worse. If you can't see how this won't isolate people, this conversation is pretty pointless. From the first post made it was obvious everybody is trying to turn me into some kind of monster or something...we can disagree without shouting down each others throats, or at least I used to think.

Nobody is being excluded from the conversations. Just pm me your msn address if I don't have it already, and send me (or anyone else) a message any time you want to join in.

I disagree that the game comes first, really. I stick around for the community aspect. Sure the game is fun, but I like the people better.

How is it bad that old players are coming back? That is one of the best traits of RWL, is our ability to keep members here for the long term. Without the community, this game would have died years ago. Text based games from the 90s still being around 20 years later on their own steam? Please. There is nothing wrong with the old style of play, just like there is nothing wrong with the new style of play. They are just different. I have done both, and I like the old style better. It's not a judgement on you, and it doesn't make you a monster, it is just an objective fact.

Again, you are getting hung up on unimportant details. The location of the conversation is entirely irrelevent. Msn, forums, whatever. The important thing is that it happens, that people interact civilly and that people don't get hung up on game events.

Unfortunately sometimes people take things that happen in game personally, and that hurts the community.

Well, it seems that way to me, especially the way Kilk lectured me as if everybody knew of it's existance...he has my msn and could've invited me at any time, but he made no such effort.

As I said, the community exists because of the game. Without the game, many people would leave here, although I must confess I may stay...the community is important, definetly, but this isn't a social network. People come here for a reason, and that is generally for the game.

Nothing wrong with old players coming back, I welcome each one. The problem is they are the only "new players," really. Varg and Pac-man, I suppose, but Varg seems to have been scared off by last round, and I can't blame him. Whilst there are some interesting topics in development, many people seem to prefer the old style of play without considering the merits of the newer style...I respect that you have played both in depth and come to a judgement, and wish more oldbies would do the same. I can't time travel back to play the old style, but from the brief glimpses I've seen, it kind of sucks.

The location does matter. Some people are not allowed MSN, or do not use MSN. By using that medium, you exclude forum goers who do not have access to MSN, or who do not wish to add people on MSN for whatever reason.

Clique
a narrow circle of friends; an exclusive set

MSN makes it exclusive to that medium, which is why it should be forum based as much as possible, or possibly even ingame such as with the lounge.

Quote from: cloud on May 29, 2011, 05:18:44 PM
Unfortunately sometimes people take things that happen in game personally, and that hurts the community.

An excellent point. Which is why I keep saying I would like to see a return to rp posts, and I'm hoping even despite my disagreements with people in this thread that they agree with me on this point.

Your sense of entitlement makes this laughable and stupid. I will not be responding again. Best of luck to you in whining this argument.

That's a pun.

Entitlement? If you're referring to the MSN thing, that proves how hypocritical you are:

You: OMG MSN IS NOT A CLIQUE, YOU CAN JOIN ANY TIME YOU WANT

Me: Why wasn't I invited/informed?

You: ENTITLEMENT SYNDROME

If you're referring to anything else, you're still hypocritical. Why is your view more valid then mine? Because it's more accepted?

I respect that I'm not entitled to anything. I'm a member of the community and the staff can do what they feel is best for the site, I am merely trying to represent my viewpoint. This was meant to be a discussion, not a debate or an arguement. I wasn't the first person to start throwing out insults.

Well I have been here roughly a year as most of you know by now...

From being here, the game has changed much in the past year.

When I came it was more of peaceful and you net together and build to gain high nets and win the round where now a days its more "war-like." Which I believe the game was made for to be like a war compared to the newer "generation's" way of netting. I am from the newer generation obviously and some of you are from the old(obviously). My point is that we came in and learned different of how to play the game peacefully or war-like.

Example: We newer generation are like the Redwallers who are peaceful creature but when provoked we will fight back shown these few past rounds with words. And the older generation are more vermin, that have "large army"(community of themselves) but they will back-stab each other but still be friends with others like the in-game and community aspect.

Also the newer generation was having like one or two new or old players coming back or being new a month, slowly growing and some become inactive with a community not too talkative. But this year 2011, it seems like a lot are coming in and are very talkative make fun and chaos throughout forums(which isn't a bad thing).

Yes the two generations(or however how many there are) are going to have to adapt to how each other play.

The MSN thing, Firetooth...you have to ask someone online if they are chatting and ask someone to let you in. Thats how it usually works for me but there is no need to make to big of a deal about it.

But Firetooth is right about the community and game targeting younger players. I believe that we should help them learn the game more even if they are not chatting we are the ones that got to outreach and help them learn there way around otherwise most that don't get help right away usually get inactive. Unless they are chatty then they typically stick around if they like us or if we treat them with respect even if they suck at the game or posting *cough*

Spies: Well in wars there are typically spies that run around and listen in. How do you think governments get intel? Plus we have our leaders as Espionages to see what others do...it is just easier to have the spies there....there are spies in reg and turbo...it happens :D

New styles of playing...Hey I play completely different then most people here. Like last round I just tried weird strats and piss people off by destroying there well earned net and well it obviously worked. haha I got killed three times and would have been more if there wasn't diplomacy floating around.

Also with my style of play yes I did a partial indy strat with a fox....so. In Immortalization Turbo Round 37 I was a wolf with about 50 million in net of basically food.
http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=12219.0 (http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?topic=12219.0)
I was Sewer Rat...in three-five days I indied with a wolf and look where I ended up basically last to third. Yes I get crap for not using other races for the strats they are suppose to be used for but I work it out.

It is fun for me to mess around and create my own type of strategies compared to everyones basic and standard strat...sorry I can use it but I choose not too. It doesn't bring fun or accomplishment for me. I live my life day by day and stuff happens so get over it. Yes I sacked about 100 billion cash off you last round and burned it. From my view, I was looking to be destruct last round and with you have a lot of cash and decently easy to attack it made it easier for me to be destructive. I wasn't targeting you because of your name I was targeting you because of your wealth.

And everyone in the community is all different and has their own personalities and own opinions...everyone just has to adjust to it...not everything in life is going to be easy but there are times for diplomacy, arguing, wars, peaceful netting but in the end we all should get along and have fun with the game still being here for us to play and chat with each other.

(sorry if something doesn't make sense but those are some of my thoughts on the matter)

TS, I have no time to reply, but that is an excellent post. Whilst I may have (several) disagreements with you, thanks for presenting your view civily and effectively. Many people in this thread, myself included, could learn from that.

TS+1 indeed

As said - msn usage is a matter of convenience since it is faster than most other ways of communication. There is nothing malicious in it. If some people can't use it, then that's unfortunate, but really not our responsibility.

Firetooth, I haven't seen you online in ages. Maybe your display name change, I dunno.

Thanks! :D

Yes I don't expect everyone to agree with my views or anything I have to say but I would rather present my opinion and thoughts then sitting on the sideline wondering where this conversation is going and whether or not I should post. There are very valid points made in this topic about the changes that are going unnoticed by a lot of people but more or less eventually everyone will have to adapt somehow to how each other play, post and chat otherwise will be left out or be a loner(mostly like nature if animals do not adapt to their environment they will die out usually **hehe biology mind**)

Edit: I forgot to put in the other post, yes at times I take things personally in-game...and sometimes I don't even care haha

Great points, TS. I like that post.

But you are wrong, you see. For I am Firetooth, Lord of Posts, never wrong, and the best poster because I got a title this one time, and this makes my opinion weigh more and be more important than all of yours. It is my right to declare you wrong and then act smugly in my victory, even if no one agrees.

~Firetooth 2011

I could do this all day, and then you could parrot some trash back at me that is tired, whiny, and wrong. Then everyone would continue to post posts, and you will still call THEM wrong, whilst wielding your shield of I AM ENTITLED TO MY OPINION. Maybe a posting vacation would be good for your future. My point before about your sense of entitlement is based on the fact that you feel like you are RWL's golden boy because you got some title. You are not any more important than anyone else on here, and there is no reason that anyone should have to listen to your opinion just because you have it, especially when it makes you look like a bigger jerk than me, which is frankly quite hard.

No one will ever change your opinion, and until then you will be wrong for trying to control what others do to match whatever your moral compass spits out. You are literally mad because you lost a round of Turbo. Get over it. This is a tantrum, and you are acting like a child. "EVERYONE IS WRONG BUT ME". Haha, alright, guy.

Ahaha, lol.

I'm sorry, just the image of Kilkene telling somebody to get over themselves and stop  acting smug is hilarious. Seriously, I genuinely chuckled. The irony must be lost on him

"Hey, I'm Kilkene. Blah blah good post. Blah blah Kyro you're bad at posting but I'm great look at me! Blah blah attention seeking post blah blah good post blah blah extravagant post blah blah flaming post."

However jokingly you post, all you ramble about is the quality of posts, so I find it very ironic you of all people can tell somebody to act less arrogant. I've never claimed I am right or more important then everybody else, that is an assumption you've made, just like you claiming I'm "self absorbed." If you want to go ahead and dislike me, fine, but you made one relevant posts, and the rest have been insults based off assumptions. I'm not mad because I lost a round of turbo, I'm angry because people like you keep goading and insulting me...I was very calm when I started this thread, mainly because I excepted people to be more mature.

Anyway, you'll no doubt find so way to criticize me based off something I haven't actually said, go for it. But I am yet to here a good rebuttal or a further argument from you. All your doing is showing how childish you are by continuing to insult me. Insulting me by calling me arrogant because I have a title and have an opinion is completely ridiculous, a good 50% of the forum go-ers have titles, and a good 100% have opinions.

Quote from: Kilkenne on May 29, 2011, 06:27:14 PM
Maybe a posting vacation would be good for your future.

See, Kilk and his endless critique of posts. How laughably ridiculous.

Now, if you have anything relevant to add, go for it, or go critique some spa posts or post another lame, attention-seek posting somewhere, because I've had enough of your unprovoked insults and, ironically enough, "golden boy" attitude myself. Go figure.

This argument is going nowhere. Firetooth your posts (and some ensuing replies by other members) are embarrassing yourself, the other members , and the RWL community. Please consider taking a break to think things over before posting again.
In other words this whole topic is hurting RWL rather than helping it, please stop.

Well, this was a colossal waste of time. Shael is absolutely right.

Quote from: Gen. Volkov on May 30, 2011, 01:13:41 AM
Well, this was a colossal waste of time. Shael is absolutely right.

It's almost a bigger waste of time than 27 3% desertions.

On topic:

Firetooth, stop crying.

I agree this was a waste of time, and I apologize for any insults I threw out, however if anybody wants to continue to discuss this civilly I will happily engage in such a discussion.

I don't see this as a rubbish thread. It's just a little off track, and the proposition is wrong.

Firstly, there was no Golden Age. There was an awesome first era, with heavy ROC influence, and 3 attack rules and stuff. It was way fun. But it was awesome because no-one knew what they were doing, no-one really knew how to make net or shut people down. It was great because it was the game's infancy. Other things helped, but they weren't integral to it.

This was all over before 2003 was out. That was nearly 8 years ago. Since then, the game has changed degrees at a time, but by the end of 2003, most hardcore ROCers were gone, RPs had died out, attack rules were out the window. It wasn't so different to our game now. Comparing the game's first year to now is nonsense, no matter what the community was like, there were bound to be massive changes.

So, I don't believe there was ever a  'Golden Era' in the years prior to you, Firetooth.

Now, to the other slightly odder assumptions.

Kills weren't a factor of ye olden days. That was just returned vets behaving in noob-like fashion 'cos they weren't really sure what they were doing.

As for diplomacy, diplomacy is huge, and has always been huge. Without diplomacy, this game is nothing. We all would have been bored out of our brains if we couldn't do fun diplomatic stuff. Spies, alliances, betrayals, plans. It's so important to what makes this game fun. We get out of it what we put in, and the most enjoyable moments any of us have in this game don't involve the end result. It's about the journey, about making clans, helping newbs, whatever. That's all diplomacy.

Diplomacy also ties in heavily with community. Without RWL's community, there would be no-one left. Most of us continue to play for years and years because of the friendships we've made, the debates and conversations we've had. Every game thrives on its community. I strongly recommend players join the forums and chat to each other. Because it's FUN.

I can only hope diplomacy remains as big a part of future Turbo rounds as it was with this one. BA/KM did awesomely. The intrigue, the plots. It's exciting, even if you're not necessarily involved in it.

Just on another obsession people have had of late...

For the most part, I find RPs a bit lame, 'cos they're so badly written. I mean, there are exceptions, and I prefer them to be tongue in cheek. But I don't see them as necessarily tools for playing out wars and stuff, they can still be done in a way that is not necessarily formal. RPs tend to alienate people not directly involved, wheras there's nothing like a robust argument. Game related topics can still be IC without being RPs, there is definitely a distinction.

On new guard/old guard:

Awesome we have old players returning. Awesome we have new ones, too. We have had a lot in Squire, and many of them are doing really well, and seem to have a keen interest in the game. Getting them on the forums can take some time, or might not ever happen, but they certainly have a strong IG presence. They're not being scared away by evil veterans bringing back the imaginary culture of the past.

END. Conclusions are boring

Great post, Holby. There was never a 'golden age', it just seems that way since it was a while back (8 years ago, jesus)

And yes, I think RWL is more about the community than the game itself - I know for a fact I wasn't playing the game between '04 and maybe '07? I was just hanging about on the forums. Yeah, the game is important, but it's clearly more about the people.

I hope to see you in the MSN chat sessions sometime soon, Firetooth. :) I know I've never seen you online though, otherwise we would have invited you.

A good post.

Let's get stuck in. I do not pretend to know the history of the game indepth beyond when I started, but many people here to refer to a golden age, and continue to do so. I also agree the first era is not creatable as it would require everybody to willingly play bad.

Yes, kills were a factor in ye olden days. Taking land was seen as an act of war, kills were a way of achieveing this. Even without playing back then, I can tell from some threads I stumbled accross in my few years here that they were more prominent and acceptable then now. The return of vets utilizing kills may have been because they were rusty, but I also believe it was probably more widespread back then.

I agree, diplomacy should have a large role, however I think people are confusing the role it should play. Spies are boring in my opinion, although that is obviously subjective, spies generally aren't fun as they just make people paranoid and lead to false accusations. Remember that time people thought I was spying for another prom?

The journey is key, I agree. I have met some great people in the rounds, and ultimately the wars and the alliances are the funner parts, however they have a role and shouldn't extend beyond it. When things become huge, lengthy msn discussion things no longer are fun. As you said, the community is key, I've played several proms and the main reason I play here is because the community keeps the game going, however ultimately I still believe the game does come first.

Also, the KM/BA diplomacy was not fun at all. Only trusting 2 people because everyone else was a spy or out to screw you over was no fun. Wasting hours late at night in msn convos due to time zones was not fun. There was little intrigue or plot, just net being developed unopposed.

Onto RP's:

RP's are great as they allow newer players to connect and partake in the forums whilst still relating to ingame. The fact they're badly written doesn't matter, they're not meant to be literary masterpieces. They're a way for the community to make the diplomacy fun and and less personal. Even though nobody else really RP'd, I found it kind of funny looking through at the typo's I made. Arguements get too personal, as this thread shows, and are no fun. RP's let you relate to and discuss the events of the game without getting angry, and you can still have OOC posts for important stuff.

I agree, it's good old players are returning, but we need more new players to join the forums and the servers. At the moment, some newbies like Vulpes Jarr are around, but nobody seems to be making any effort to teach them anymore. Squire in reg has a good goal, but I am yet to see a decent player from their teaching, however I think we need more clans like that.  I'll probably start teaching some newbies again soon.

Edit: Thanks Ashyra, if anybody else doesn't have my msn, add it:

cdwood1@hotmail.co.uk

(be warned, it is notirously rubbish...ask Kilk, Neo or Purp)

Fix MSN

Be invited to MSN collective

???

Profit!

Quote from: Firetooth on May 30, 2011, 08:29:40 AM
Let's get stuck in. I do not pretend to know the history of the game indepth beyond when I started, but many people here to refer to a golden age, and continue to do so. I also agree the first era is not creatable as it would require everybody to willingly play bad.

I referred to it that way because you did.

Just out of curiosity, how do you define the new style of play? Frankly when I speak of old style play, I refer more to the community than the game itself. I find play styles almost irrelevent compared to how people interact outside of the game.

Quote
Yes, kills were a factor in ye olden days. Taking land was seen as an act of war, kills were a way of achieveing this. Even without playing back then, I can tell from some threads I stumbled accross in my few years here that they were more prominent and acceptable then now. The return of vets utilizing kills may have been because they were rusty, but I also believe it was probably more widespread back then.

Kill have always been around, but no more then than they are now.

Quote
I agree, diplomacy should have a large role, however I think people are confusing the role it should play. Spies are boring in my opinion, although that is obviously subjective, spies generally aren't fun as they just make people paranoid and lead to false accusations. Remember that time people thought I was spying for another prom?

No, people simply disagree with you on the role diplomacy plays. There is no role it "should" play, it can play any role that people feel like.

Quote
The journey is key, I agree. I have met some great people in the rounds, and ultimately the wars and the alliances are the funner parts, however they have a role and shouldn't extend beyond it. When things become huge, lengthy msn discussion things no longer are fun.

Says you! I have lots of fun talking to people on msn, usually about things completely unrelated to the game. Simply because you don't like something is no reason to tell the rest of us we shouldn't be doing it!

Quote
Also, the KM/BA diplomacy was not fun at all. Only trusting 2 people because everyone else was a spy or out to screw you over was no fun. Wasting hours late at night in msn convos due to time zones was not fun. There was little intrigue or plot, just net being developed unopposed.

Entirely your fault on every count. Wasting hours late nights on msn was because you went overboard seeing spies and conspiracies everywhere. When that happens, leave your clan and play solo to take people down. If something isn't fun, DON'T DO IT. Net being developed unnoposed was again, your fault (and the fault of everyone not in KM). It was unopposed because you chose not to oppose it. Don't complain about it after.


I do have you on msn, I just haven't seen you on there recently. Are you sure you have me? ^_^

Anyway:

Your exchange with Kilk, where you both called each other arrogant golden boys. You need to understand something about Kilk. His internet persona is developed intentionally to be a parody of the nonsense that is the Internet. He is like the Comedian from Watchmen. He knows his attitude is a joke, and he goes with it and exaggerates it for the sake of it. Your attitude is much the same (lately), but yours is genuine. And that is the problem that everyone has with it.


There is a very important point that you are missing here. RWL is not consciously choosing to play in a specific manner. There are just people who are going to play with different styles, and the game will adjust to reflect that. It is not a choice, a democratic decision to play one way or another. It is going to happen, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, and people will adapt to it.

So please, stop posting with an attitude that this is something you can change by arguing about it. It isn't. It is just something that is happening right now, for better or for worse, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

And I referred to it that way because others did, the name isn't even a huge deal anyway lol. By newer style of play, I mean less kills, (generally) less convoluted diplomacy and more net produced. That is probably the best way I could briefly summarize it, although I could go in depth.

Kills were more prominent before, hence the introduction of the standard rule, though that was not during the golden age, amounts of kills have changed since I have been here and have no doubt changed before.

People can agree to disagree. As you said, the role it takes will be defined by what the players choose, through their opinions, which they can express.

I was referring to MSN convo's related to the game that are necessary to keep up with the game. Nothing wrong with MSN convo's, I use MSN myself, but they shouldn't be necessary to run a/be in a clan.

I know Kilk is intentionally flamboyant, but he shouldn't get away with constantly insulting and prodding people because of it. It's not just me, every time Kyro posts he lectures him on bad posting and tells him and others to "stop postin'," which is quite annoying...have a persona, cool, but don't be a jerk about it, which Kilk seems to be doing lately., but it gets brushed off because he's just joking and messing around Moreover, nobody every does anything about it. It's pretty stupid that I'm getting lectured when he was the one who started insulting me and was the main reason this topic was so badly derailed.

I've gone over this again, there was no way to oppose KM. They had spies everywhere, and my clan was divided on their loyalties to them. Marlfox lay down and played dead, and the only other clan were pretty much in KM'S pocket. Solo I wouldn't have been able to take the whole clan down. KM had, at it's peak (excluding me), Gen, Windy, Volk, KIlk, Ashyra, Rudder and Rev, plus purp and mike may have sided with them in a war. Not particularly good odds.

QuoteThere is a very important point that you are missing here. RWL is not consciously choosing to play in a specific manner. There are just people who are going to play with different styles, and the game will adjust to reflect that. It is not a choice, a democratic decision to play one way or another. It is going to happen, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, and people will adapt to it.

So please, stop posting with an attitude that this is something you can change by arguing about it. It isn't. It is just something that is happening right now, for better or for worse, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Come on Shadow, Shael has been going on lately more and more about how the game needs to return to the old style, I can quote posts if needed. Whilst this may be a change in player attitudes, it is wrong to say that it isn't being promoted. Also, my point is that plenty of people do not approve of the old style of play returning, but generally the people posting are...yep, players from back then.

(also, are you sure you have my new MSN account? It says you don't on my buddy/friend list)

QuoteCome on Shadow, Shael has been going on lately more and more about how the game needs to return to the old style, I can quote posts if needed. Whilst this may be a change in player attitudes, it is wrong to say that it isn't being promoted. Also, my point is that plenty of people do not approve of the old style of play returning, but generally the people posting are...yep, players from back then.

Shael -likes- that old players are returning. Who cares how they play? People are playing in the old manner, which is to say more community, lots of battles that are all in good fun. Of course she promotes it. So do I. That doesn't by any means indicate that we can dictate that that is what play styles are going to be. Shael's, and my support, do exactly as much as your non-support. Nothing at all, other than an expression of opinion.

Nothing whatsoever about our plans for the future development of the game have changed as a result of this influx of old members playing a different style. They have brought some new ideas to the table that were not there in the old days of the game, but the basic plan going forward is the same.

I repeat. Nothing at all has changed, except the perceptions that people have about the game. And that is not something that we can dictate or even guide in a particular direction, and it is not something that we want to have any control over.

QuoteI was referring to MSN convo's related to the game that are necessary to keep up with the game. Nothing wrong with MSN convo's, I use MSN myself, but they shouldn't be necessary to run a/be in a clan.

Where do you get this idea that it is necessary to talk on msn to keep up with the game? I don't understand what your problem with this is. I talk to various people on msn because it is fun and it is interesting to talk to people from all over the world who happen to share my odd, esoteric (is this the word I want?) interest in text-based strategy games from the 90s.

QuoteI know Kilk is intentionally flamboyant, but he shouldn't get away with constantly insulting and prodding people because of it. It's not just me,

QuoteCome on Shadow, Shael has been going on lately more and more about how the game needs to return to the old style, I can quote posts if needed. Whilst this may be a change in player attitudes, it is wrong to say that it isn't being promoted. Also, my point is that plenty of people do not approve of the old style of play returning, but generally the people posting are...yep, players from back then.

every time Kyro posts he lectures him on bad posting and tells him and others to "stop postin'," which is quite annoying...have a persona, cool, but don't be a jerk about it, which Kilk seems to be doing lately., but it gets brushed off because he's just joking and messing around Moreover, nobody every does anything about it. It's pretty stupid that I'm getting lectured when he was the one who started insulting me and was the main reason this topic was so badly derailed.

If kilk crosses the line into outright flaming I will moderate him as I would anyone else. If there is a post he makes that I let slide that you think should not be let slide, send me a message and I will reconsider things.

QuoteI've gone over this again, there was no way to oppose KM. They had spies everywhere, and my clan was divided on their loyalties to them. Marlfox lay down and played dead, and the only other clan were pretty much in KM'S pocket. Solo I wouldn't have been able to take the whole clan down. KM had, at it's peak (excluding me), Gen, Windy, Volk, KIlk, Ashyra, Rudder and Rev, plus purp and mike may have sided with them in a war. Not particularly good odds.

Boo hoo. So what if you fail? Me and Lucy failed to stop them, and we had a blast doing it.

Quote(also, are you sure you have my new MSN account? It says you don't on my buddy/friend list)

I think so... unless the domain has changed. I will check again.

I like that old players are turning to, my issue is not with that. By supporting one style of play you view the other style of play as lesser. Even if it is not currently affecting development, it may well do, which is why it is good to express your opinion. Shael's post actually does seem to state the game is being pushed into the direction of "the golden age."

Quote from: The Lady Shael on May 10, 2011, 04:59:30 PM
Firetooth, haven't you been reading the topics lately? Every player here who has played both then and now agree that the old days were better. We've actually been trying to move the game in that direction again. It was RWL's Golden Age. Most oldbies agree that the playerbase as a whole has gone soft, and the "troop hole" warlord notices is evidence of this.

I also think it is silly to say that there was no community and no battles before. This isn't the peak of forum activity in my tine here, neither it is the peak of in game activity.

Kilk already has crossed into outright flaming when he only started replying to insult me opposed to commenting on the discussion itself.

I dunno. Maybe I'm more elitist than I thought. I have failed before, but I just don't see the appeal of going into something you know you can't win...in future I will try to keep a more open attitude.

What Shael meant is that we are trying to move away from lonely net-fest and into competitive interaction. That was the plan well before any of the oldies showed up. In fact most of the planned changes are designed to maximize interactions, both peaceful and aggressive. It does NOT say that we are catering changes to the old crowd any more than the new one. Nor will we. That I will promise you. Changes are intended to balance the game, not to promote a particular style of play. And if it happens that the changes have that unintended consequence, we will always tweak things again.

QuoteI also think it is silly to say that there was no community and no battles before

Before this round, I don't even remember the last leader takedown I did. Which is my fault for the change that killed it, but the fact remains that leaders have not had much competition beside sack lately.

I mean, even when we emped Holby and owned the game for so long... Nobody fought. Well, they did, but barely. It was just... boring.

The attitude I would like to see, is for people to stop caring where they end up and playing for the moment. It is more important to me that people have fun now, then for them to finish in rank 1. hell, I don't even remember who won any past rounds. I think I may have won a few, but I am not sure which, or how.

Now I will give you that this is a relatively new attitude for me. I was rather like you for a good while, more concerned with the outcome. And it sucks. This is way better. Which is why I like the shift that is happening now. But I can't help or hinder it. It just happens.


You still haven't acknowledged this! You are arguing and arguing, but the point remains that it doesn't do anything. Please acknowledge this. If you want to have a part in game development, post ideas and we can talk them through. But this arguing is not constructive.

QuoteKilk already has crossed into outright flaming when he only started replying to insult me opposed to commenting on the discussion itself.

I haven't seen anything from him this thread that I haven't also seen from you ^_^

QuoteThis isn't the peak of forum activity in my tine here, neither it is the peak of in game activity.

Perhaps it is coincidence, but the last 3 months have been the most active forum wise since October, 2009. Just sayin'.

I see. Well, that is reassuring to hear.

I can remember leader takedowns. Hey, two rounds before this one on Shael+Snare's clan, who name escapes me. Also, I agree leader needs competition, but because of the way the strategies work, that is not going to happen without radical change. Leaders never had and, without reforms, won't really continue to have much competition, unfortunately.

I agree, but despite my role helping Holby emp I was not around for much of that, so I can't remember exactly what happened...maybe that shows something. The same thing happened with Ereptor back when I was newer here, and I remember me and nobody else really fought.

Fun is definitely more important than winning, nobody (at least I think nobody) is denying that. I've had fun plenty of times without winning, because of, as Holby said, the journey, however ultimately the game is competitive and people act without thinking of long term benefits for them it might not work out great.

Finally, I realize this shift is not something directly controlled and is unavoidable. I've never said otherwise, I was pointing out what I see as flaws with the change. But as you said, we will eventually see what the style ends up becoming over time.

I'm not denying my fault, just proclaiming his.  :P

Quote from: Neobaron on May 30, 2011, 02:09:21 PM

QuoteThis isn't the peak of forum activity in my tine here, neither it is the peak of in game activity.

Perhaps it is coincidence, but the last 3 months have been the most active forum wise since October, 2009. Just sayin'.

I think that is the period I was referring to, one sec.

Based on PPD, I'd be willing to bet it is an error. This forum does not make 700+ posts per day unless the spa is counted.

Those stats do count spa posts.

QuoteI'm not denying my fault, just proclaiming his.  Tongue

Well, don't. our general approach to everyone and everything in this thread was a disaster, and it did you no favours.

http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?board=32.620 (http://www.redwallwarlords.com/forums/index.php?board=32.620)

There are pages and pages of nov. in there, so as spa is counted that is why, as that is the same period as the oct flux.

That was the period I was referring to in forum activity...game activity would be between mid 2008 and 2009 for me probably, but that is a while ago, so forgive me if my memory is poor.

Ahh.

So it looks like that was during the AoU saga or whatever... inflated numbers.

I'm sorry, but the scapegoat you are looking for is in another castle!

Really though, you can continue to pretend that I am the RWL bogey-man if it makes you happy. I like this persona.