Redwall: Warlords

Discussion => Reg Discussion => Topic started by: The Obliterator on February 07, 2021, 04:56:29 AM

Title: Current Strats
Post by: The Obliterator on February 07, 2021, 04:56:29 AM
So I just finished my first run back and apparently I still somewhat remember how to play  :D

I am playing an indy strat because it's what I remember! What other strategies are people playing at the moment? Im noticing a lot of people are playing ferret does this mean that market is a realistic strat at the moment?

Anyways just checking up on whats happening.

See ya round!
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: JesterAverageJoe on February 07, 2021, 02:01:16 PM
while I'm not terribly versed in effective, efficient Indy strats, to my understanding, it probably is the single most profitable one, followed closely by farming.
I remember being fond of Gremlining in the old days, & even here the Ferret seems a straight-forward means to increase net in the long game. So to do the latter, I think, is to micromanage & min-max less overall & thus complete runs quicker w/o sacrificing much long-game efficacy... Unless I'm overthinking the Indy strat? I tend to do that :P
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: Ryu on February 08, 2021, 01:23:28 AM
Ferret uses 100% foragers for food production but requires 1 hut for missions as needed. This also gives Ferret ability 50% chance for 1 extra point of healing while foraging. I tried a build where I put all food on public market and in the final week I switch to 100% huts for leaders and in the final 100 turns make 40% camps for Mercenaries lowest buy price. 30 billion food was about 1 billion networth. Much like a wolf feast strategy.

Marten is arguably the strongest networth finisher solo. Small Mercs bonus and Goldmine with leader security gives it all around coverage.

Solo indy has upkeep issues. Recommended to build farms to hold food for a higher finish.  With a clan member however Indy + Indy is the most powerful combo thanks to unlimited foreign aid credits.

Casher/Market strategies I haven't tried but if the values are similar to QMT code it is not worth it. Production is less than food and left vulnerable holding all that cash for steals.

Wildcat is, bad.. In Northlands it makes 6 rats per barrack. In Southsward with 100% tents and 5% tax rate it makes 4 rats per pressgang. I made a bunch of cities and stacked weasels to block take city mission. Fun but bad overall.

Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: The Obliterator on February 08, 2021, 04:12:42 AM
Itís seems like a lot of people are using the ferret strat and I had never seen it before 😆. So thanks for the explanation.

Yeah haha solo Indy is difficult until you get a good market presence going. Indy has been my main strat but like you said itís hard to finish well if unless you add food. So I normally go 60-70% barracks and the rest in foragers with a few huts for loyalty so I can raise defences. Itís so easy to get wiped as an Indy player.

I have never tried cashier or market but I thought it got buffed a bit in rwl 3.0 but that was a long time ago.
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: JesterAverageJoe on February 08, 2021, 12:56:03 PM
I think when I first ran here, I went Magpie, because it was the closest thing to a duck :p
But I believe it had a pretty straight forward casher strat, overall easy to run, easy to recover health with it's tax evasion, but not strong in the long game :P
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: windhound on February 10, 2021, 07:26:12 AM
A little weird seeing only half the board running leaders, but nice to see some diversity. 
Two Martens, two Ferrets, a Rat and a Wolf. 

Do the Ferrets with their 1 hut not fear being poisoned / murdered, esp at round's end? 

If yall want to try rebalancing a few of the races to make them more competitive I'm game
http://www.redwallwarlords.com/reg/rwl.php?action=help&section=RacesGuide 
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: Ryu on February 10, 2021, 09:30:50 AM
Interesting offer Windy. Regarding Wildcat: The main issue it has is pressgang being a mission. If it costed 1 turn this would bump it's production value 100%- 8 rats per tent with pressgang. But the mission itself is quite expensive. Pressgang has x3 loyalty
 cost of Raising Defences. So it needs to run huts and earn loyalty in mossflower every so often. My main suggestion would be to change it from mission to passive ability instead.

I believe cities are 1000 tents and 500 camp? Perhaps doubling that tent value could help Wildcat and Magpie.  They are quite an expensive investment however especially in the first half of the round-The food cost specifically.
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: JesterAverageJoe on February 10, 2021, 12:20:49 PM
I remember hearing once that Cities were only ever a half-finished idea; perhaps we can make a concerted effort to tweak the mechanic to make it more relevant in the meta. Maybe not huge, abrupt changes, but perhaps some aspect adjustment that natively lowers the cost of holding units like rats or something~
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: windhound on February 10, 2021, 01:17:36 PM
Interesting offer Windy. Regarding Wildcat: The main issue it has is pressgang being a mission. If it costed 1 turn this would bump it's production value 100%- 8 rats per tent with pressgang. But the mission itself is quite expensive. Pressgang has x3 loyalty
 cost of Raising Defences. So it needs to run huts and earn loyalty in mossflower every so often. My main suggestion would be to change it from mission to passive ability instead.

I believe cities are 1000 tents and 500 camp? Perhaps doubling that tent value could help Wildcat and Magpie.  They are quite an expensive investment however especially in the first half of the round-The food cost specifically.

Hm..  so what's your idea with PressGang being a passive?  Increase troops produced by barracks by a set percent?  Say an extra 5%?  iirc that's doable with the race chart values..       
As long as Pressgang is a mission imo it should take two turns, but I'd be willing to tweak the output and reduce the loyalty costs.   
As always it's a balancing act, but as it's currently so nerfed that noone uses it we can give it a mild buff and see how it works. 

Same with cities.  I'm game to double the tent and camp buff, maybe add a line so that they decrease troop resource costs, though I'm a little hesitant to start messing with cities too much; iirc that code is def a little half baked, the 'take city' mission in particular may still be iffy.   
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: The Obliterator on February 10, 2021, 09:49:10 PM
I think with it being a leader mission that has to be done it makes sense that it has increased output. However it does run the risk of being OP being able to have leader defence and massive production of troops.

Mind you I have always thought that leader strikes were overpowered and had an unfair advantage against Indy or forager strats. You just canít defend especially when they can open unlimited attacks on you and basically poison and murder. I know this is a massive change but what if there were separated troop and leader attacks. Opening troop attacks would work in the same way but opening leader attacks would involve using a troop mission like chaos (no idea what most of these do anymore anyway, itís been a while, I just drive out of habit). Itís seems like that would give Indy players a bit more of a defence especially against a concerted attack. Cause at the moment itís raise defences and hope for the best XD.
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: Ryu on February 11, 2021, 12:47:17 AM
Passive ability- Pressgang: Workers are converted into horde for 'x' amount of hours. (Allocation based on management settings). Keep the tent gimmick.  This would remove the leader turn cost altogether.

 Or double the output of workers into horde with press gang mission. Reduce loyalty cost. Likely the easier change.
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: windhound on February 11, 2021, 08:27:54 PM
I think with it being a leader mission that has to be done it makes sense that it has increased output. However it does run the risk of being OP being able to have leader defence and massive production of troops.

Mind you I have always thought that leader strikes were overpowered and had an unfair advantage against Indy or forager strats. You just canít defend especially when they can open unlimited attacks on you and basically poison and murder. I know this is a massive change but what if there were separated troop and leader attacks. Opening troop attacks would work in the same way but opening leader attacks would involve using a troop mission like chaos (no idea what most of these do anymore anyway, itís been a while, I just drive out of habit). Itís seems like that would give Indy players a bit more of a defence especially against a concerted attack. Cause at the moment itís raise defences and hope for the best XD.
Yep, reasonably sure Pressgang has had at least one nerf since it was added.  Probably why loyalty costs are so high for it now. 

Leader missions have indeed always been a bit one sided, but sack/capture evened the board a bit as those missions heavily favor those without leaders. 

iirc there was another promi that made maxing on the attacker's side instead of the defender's, which I thought was a bit clever. 
So there wouldn't be a problem with land-fat empires being maxed out, but you had to more carefully use your own remaining attacks.   
Been a while since I ventured into the attack code, but in theory that shouldn't take too much effort to implement.   Could try it for a round if there's interest. 

Passive ability- Pressgang: Workers are converted into horde for 'x' amount of hours. (Allocation based on management settings). Keep the tent gimmick.  This would remove the leader turn cost altogether.

 Or double the output of workers into horde with press gang mission. Reduce loyalty cost. Likely the easier change.
Interesting.  So basically a wildcat would spend their turns cranking out workers, then passively gain troops between runs. 

I do think I'd prefer it to be an active step like a mission, but will think on it. 

Thanks for the input guys

Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: The Obliterator on February 11, 2021, 09:10:50 PM
Maxing on the attackers side is actually very interesting. I would be keen to give it a go. Nothing worse than logging in to run and seeing all the land on 1 leader player with no way to get it all off them XD

The races stat page is also a bit confusing sometimes especially on the merc tab. There are both positive and negative bonuses both green and red
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: windhound on February 12, 2021, 07:26:16 AM
On the Race Chart "Green = beneficial, Red = harmful" is based on what the assumed strat would be 

ie, for indy-tuned races like Rat higher merc prices is a boost because they'll be selling more often than buying.   
For the leader-tuned races high merc prices hurt 'cause most of the time you're buying. 
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: The Obliterator on February 12, 2021, 07:24:45 PM
Oh thanks. Hahaha I have been playing this game for how long and only just figured that out hahahaha
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: The Obliterator on February 17, 2021, 03:56:37 AM
What about a scout attack option for troop players. I'm not sure about how it would work but maybe it would be a standard attack variant. If you succeed the standard attack you get scouting information. How does this sound?
Title: Re: Current Strats
Post by: JesterAverageJoe on February 17, 2021, 04:55:04 PM
I remember in a similar game, "Tribal Wars", there was a dedicated scout unit (mounted on coursers), that were not invulnerable to attacks outside of "scouting attacks where the home units outnumber the enemy scouts sent.
Dunno how easy it would be to configure to include another unit, or whether having the leader/mage unit makes the scout concept redundant~