Fair Maiden

[Shadow]

It's never that you got beaten, is it Sevs. If you go down, it's because the game is out of balance.

I expected you to be the most difficult opposition the game would throw at us. Try playing the undersog for a change, it's fun.

[Sevz]

Why not make your own team and use suicides to beat us. Holby put it best when he said "I am subject to the exact same tactic. This is a level playing field"

That sounds like a waste of my time. I don't like to deliberately fail attacks. I will not reduce myself to relying on it.

PA
being angry about the betrayal is entirely legitimate.

I didn't expect any of you to stick to your words.

It's never that you got beaten, is it Sevs. If you go down, it's because the game is out of balance.

I expected you to be the most difficult opposition the game would throw at us. Try playing the undersog for a change, it's fun.

I had 7m leaders on 175 ratio +30%wolf mod, all killed by 100k leaders on -40%rat mod
You decide if it's cool or fun

Underdog is my specialty, pointlessness isn't. I'll enjoy playing elsewhere and not at redwall.

[Sharptooh]

Giving up because of some leader suicides and some people destroying your net?

I'm pretty sure most people at redwall have been through that, more than half the people here have also probably been killed at least once.

[Gen. Volkov]

Giving up because of some leader suicides and some people destroying your net?

I've lost count of the number of times that has happened to me. Suicides suck. But they are part of the game, and you have to learn to work around them. The first time someone used suicides on me, I was mad as hell. But I wasn't gonna quit over it.

[Sevz]

I've been suicided way too many times. Failing attacks is something i'm strongly against and it's encouraged over here.
You guys can hunt mice with nuclear warheads for all i care.

I prefer to play solo and against the numbers. Slow server where i get my leaders killed doesn't work for me.

Seems pointless to play and not get anywhere. When i do get ahead, there's absolutely nothing/zilch/0/naught i can do to protect my empire.
Yes i appear a sore loser. I'd prefer that than waste my time here.

Good luck to you all

Farewell, Sevz

[Gen. Volkov]

Seems pointless to play and not get anywhere. When i do get ahead, there's absolutely nothing/zilch/0/naught i can do to protect my empire.

There are certain things you can do. Declanning helps a lot. Having lots of leaders in conjunction with that helps as well. If you create a big enough NW difference, people won't be able to attack you anymore. We here at RWL have dealt with the suicide issue for awhile, and have developed tactics to protect ourselves. It's part of the skill set we've all developed.

[Shadow]

Lol Sevs the fact that you are still posting here means that you want to be convinced to stay, which means that this thread is just about excuses rather than quitting. If you are really leaving, then do it and stop making excuses. If you aren't, then just admit that you are staying and stop complaining about game balance.

[Sevz]

Seems pointless to play and not get anywhere. When i do get ahead, there's absolutely nothing/zilch/0/naught i can do to protect my empire.

There are certain things you can do. Declanning helps a lot. Having lots of leaders in conjunction with that helps as well. If you create a big enough NW difference, people won't be able to attack you anymore. We here at RWL have dealt with the suicide issue for awhile, and have developed tactics to protect ourselves. It's part of the skill set we've all developed.

Lots of leaders makes no difference, You lose a percentage, not a quantity. Declanning is the best way around it but it's still Not possible to defend 2 good players using leader suicides. Bigger Networth gains targets and creates more potential damage.

Lol Sevs the fact that you are still posting here means that you want to be convinced to stay, which means that this thread is just about excuses rather than quitting. If you are really leaving, then do it and stop making excuses. If you aren't, then just admit that you are staying and stop complaining about game balance.

Zip it Lord Shadow.



you attack Unsuccessfully, You lose 154 leaders and manage to destroy 453,187 of your enemies leaders. No complaints here. I'll play elsewhere.

[Gen. Volkov]

Lots of leaders makes no difference, You lose a percentage, not a quantity. Declanning is the best way around it but it's still Not possible to defend 2 good players using leader suicides. Bigger Networth gains targets and creates more potential damage.

Quantity can still make up for a middling ratio, and even if you have 2 people suiciding you, they still have to deal with attack limits. If you have good timing, you can survive the suicides. I've done it. During the first Woof-BlackFly war, I kept a big net for 3 consecutive runs, just by timing my runs correctly. The timing did break down, and Snare was able to take me down, but it was a very close run thing. We kept Ereptor up on top for a long time in the face of constant suicides. It's possible to defend against, you just need a partner or two and good timing.

[Sevz]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

I've worked it out. Simply put

empire 1 has 10m leaders, empire 2 has 10m leaders, empire 3 has 200k.
empire 3 suicides empire 1 until empire 2 can open attack opportunities. This will give them unlimited attacks against empire 1
open once and you can surely do it again after some more suicides.
whoever was opening attack ops can attack successfully for land with leaders.

200k leaders at -40% beats down 6m leaders at +30% at no cost.
From 2 equal setups, there's no barriers of effectiveness with leader suicides.
Rat has minus 40% but it's able to kill a million times what they strike with, what a joke

[Shadow]

There is a defense ratio at which it is mathematically impossible to open attack ops on you while the attacker is at 175 ratio, even if the attacker has a trillion land, and you have 10k. It is possible to defend completely against suicides with careful play. That said, there is usually a way to open atk ops on someone if the attacker is willing do go over 175 ratio and take losses, but that leaves the attacker open to retal.

Point is, suicides are not the end of the world. They can be successfully fended off, and have been many times. When Ereptor was up there, we surived several runs where he was maxxed with suicides every hour for three full days.

It can be done, if you are smart about it.

I don't dispute that suicides are a little unbalanced, but if we take them out, the game will be far more unbalanced in favor of leader massing strategies. There are a few workarounds in discssion, but for now, know that we have lived with it for ages now, and found ways to deal with it. You should do the same.

[Sevz]

Your very incorrect. There's not a possible method to defend a substantial amount of suicides. I can do it as good as possible and it's still never enough. (if i was after my own blood)

There are a few precautionary methods to take. Firstly, gather maximum land available to force people to take land and better your ratio at hitlimit. You can save turns while your in a good leader production bracket to regenerate the expected losses (most are clueless to). You can drop land and make less profit o.O, You could use a wolf or be really nice to everyone.

End of the day, if someone has something of value, at redwall it isn't possible to secure without half the server on your team.

Well done to you all when Ereptor withstood the leader suicides. I'm not Ereptor, i don't have 10people helping me access land or give me free troops and resources.
When i play i like to run turns alone. I like to grow as much as the land available will allow. I like to play a style that another solo player can't match. A few suicides later and i'm below average. If i don't enjoy the game why should i play?
If i do return, it will be strictly because i have a team to destroy you all

[Shadow]

Lol. The math doesn't lie. There is an easy attainable ratio where you are immune to open atk op. If you can get your ratio 21 suicides worth above that mark, you are safe, for a day at least.

[Sevz]

You seem to forget about the simple things. What happens if you have the land and get suicided? your ratio isn't very good and your at hitlimit. This means someone with a good ratio and no land can easily open attack ops for more suicides.
21 becomes the minimum on the first hour of 0 turns, the next day thats 45 without open attack ops. if you lose only 1 or 2% leaders per hit say goodbye to the chances of defending anyone.

[Shadow]

Well certainly. If you are in a situation where you expect to be attacked, dropping land becomes a good idea. You produce less, but you keep more. But a lot depends on the timing of your run, too.

Anyway, I am not going to give you any more pointers than that for leader defense - it's all there to be found, and it can and has been done. So your claims that it is impossible are baseless, and have been priven wrong before. If you are still going to quit over it, just do it and be done.